Why won't SRT tell us the status of the vert?
- Thread starter DMan
- Start date
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
It just never ceases to amaze me how so many of the previous Gen Viper guys are so out of touch with reality when it comes to what the Gen V offers new car buyers. It so often comes across like a bunch of guys who must just not be able to afford the car, or whatever, and want to feel better about not getting one by knocking the car and SRT. Listen, it's okay to not buy one...really. Post about how much you love your Gen, what you've done to it, etc. If you have no interest in buying a Gen V for whatever reason, just do everyone a favor and take it somewhere else. If you don't like Ralph's vision and direction then it's completely understandable that you don't support the brand any longer, and he must not expect you since he's been making his views very clear.
It's also clear that many previous Gen owners think the Gen V is spectacular, and are voting for the Gen V with their wallet. Cross shoppers are voting with their wallet. Guys that wanted more power are changing their mind and voting with their wallet. Guys waiting for a vert will vote with their wallet if and when the car arrives within their timeframe.
But this negativity is so typical of many previous owners from many brands. I remember going to a local Supra Club meeting shortly after buying my MkIV twin turbo. Nobody knew me or what I was driving, and it happened I was the only one with the new model. Much of the conversation expressed negative views about the new model by the previous Gen guys. Half way through they thought to introduce the new guy and learned I had the new Gen they had all been trashing. Room went pretty quiet, and I've never attended another meeting for the last 14 years. You basically have to give away any of the previous Gen Supras, and MKIV's are worth as much today as they were 14 years ago, and the good ones just keep going up in value.
Same with the new Gen Jaguar XKR in 2007, and then again when they upgraded all aspects of that Gen's performance in 2010. All blah, blah from previous Gen owners as the desirability of their cars evaporated to all but the bargain hunters. To those that think the Gen V SRT is over-priced and slow selling with dealer prices closer to $100k, I would point out that resales of previous Gens at a fraction of the price are selling even slower in at least the Toronto area. I could have bought 2 with extremely low mileage for less than what I paid for my TA. Why did I choose the Gen V over previous gens? Because I liked the finishing of the Gen V inside and out. And because I wanted a new, or quite new car. I like having a warranty initially to sort out any issue, or to sell it more easily if I decide to try something else. And because I wanted one of the best performing street/track day cars available at any price. At no time did I have any interest in buying a Ferrari F430 or Ford GT. Those cars require a completely different set of priorities than I had, and while they may be great collector cars, they would be completely impractical for the way I'll use my Gen V.
I think the Gen V is going to do just fine despite the negative views of many previous gen owners. The dark days of the launch and poor reviews are behind us, new reviews are very favorable, and new buyers are delighted with their cars. If you don't think the car is awesome then ask yourself why...and then get over it.
It's also clear that many previous Gen owners think the Gen V is spectacular, and are voting for the Gen V with their wallet. Cross shoppers are voting with their wallet. Guys that wanted more power are changing their mind and voting with their wallet. Guys waiting for a vert will vote with their wallet if and when the car arrives within their timeframe.
But this negativity is so typical of many previous owners from many brands. I remember going to a local Supra Club meeting shortly after buying my MkIV twin turbo. Nobody knew me or what I was driving, and it happened I was the only one with the new model. Much of the conversation expressed negative views about the new model by the previous Gen guys. Half way through they thought to introduce the new guy and learned I had the new Gen they had all been trashing. Room went pretty quiet, and I've never attended another meeting for the last 14 years. You basically have to give away any of the previous Gen Supras, and MKIV's are worth as much today as they were 14 years ago, and the good ones just keep going up in value.
Same with the new Gen Jaguar XKR in 2007, and then again when they upgraded all aspects of that Gen's performance in 2010. All blah, blah from previous Gen owners as the desirability of their cars evaporated to all but the bargain hunters. To those that think the Gen V SRT is over-priced and slow selling with dealer prices closer to $100k, I would point out that resales of previous Gens at a fraction of the price are selling even slower in at least the Toronto area. I could have bought 2 with extremely low mileage for less than what I paid for my TA. Why did I choose the Gen V over previous gens? Because I liked the finishing of the Gen V inside and out. And because I wanted a new, or quite new car. I like having a warranty initially to sort out any issue, or to sell it more easily if I decide to try something else. And because I wanted one of the best performing street/track day cars available at any price. At no time did I have any interest in buying a Ferrari F430 or Ford GT. Those cars require a completely different set of priorities than I had, and while they may be great collector cars, they would be completely impractical for the way I'll use my Gen V.
I think the Gen V is going to do just fine despite the negative views of many previous gen owners. The dark days of the launch and poor reviews are behind us, new reviews are very favorable, and new buyers are delighted with their cars. If you don't think the car is awesome then ask yourself why...and then get over it.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Bruce, it is funny. The guys that whined the Gen V was "too expensive" - the price is crazy at the moment on brand new Gen V's.
Yet, all these guys say it is so over price still aren't spending a penny even when $30k off MSRP deals are to be found.
It is just complainers complaining, as usual.
Yet, all these guys say it is so over price still aren't spending a penny even when $30k off MSRP deals are to be found.
It is just complainers complaining, as usual.
Then explain to me why the Gen 4 needed a 35k off coupon to sell .Your trying to justify inflation but the public will pay for a product they percieve to be worth the money they are buying other supercars but not the Gen 5 .
If that was true then why would Dodge even include the Viper in a coupon.If you dont want to face reality fine but the coupons coming as these dealers want their floorplan clean so they can move cars they actually make money on .
I never liked Viper convertibles. I was on the verge of buying a Gen V...but when I heard a vert COULD be on the horizon, I backed off. Two teenage daughters approaching college age and my wife dead set on law school played a minor roll.
08viperviolet
Enthusiast
I am on my 5th Viper. All were over 25k miles when they were traded in. After driving the Gen five for a few days now it is a great car. It is an upgrade on the Gen 4 which I have owned 3. One normal coupe and 2 2010 ACR. If you do not want to buy the new car you do not have to. But please stop bashing it. SRT is working ******* the new product to make it better. The price is not cheap and has never been so. Dealers are in it to make money. If SRT gives them a coupon great if not some dealers have already put huge discount on the 2013 and now on 2014 the numbers are less than the out going gen 4 nicely optioned.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Yep, well said Bruce. The negativity here from a select few previous Gen owners is a joke, which is probably why I frequent this place less and less. Instead I just hop in my dream machine and take my lady for a nice drive, or rip up a local track. Willow Springs is coming up March 1 - 2, cannot wait. "Fastest Track in the West"
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Excellent perspective, amen. In fact, most from other brands admire the Gen V styling. You see this on the C7 Corvette forums quite a bit. They may not choose the Viper for various reasons, but rarely do you hear them rip on the car's Halle Berry curves.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
Everyone knows at least some of the reasons why the Gen V didn't sell well initially, and most aren't related to price at all. The 2013 MY cars that didn't sell well for all those reasons are now last year's models and naturally would require a price reduction incentive to move now. 2014 TA's are selling well, and for list or very close to it. They aren't loaded up with non-performance features, yet cost about $20k more than an SRT can be bought for in many cases. Its higher price isn't a problem because the car is equipped as those buyers like. The public obviously perceives it to be worth the money, and they are buying it instead of other supercars. Many are being bought by previous Gen owners. Dealers need to order cars equipped the way their buyers want, and special ordering them for buyers is the best way to do that. It's short-sighted to think sales are slow because of price, and I can't personally think of one other supercar that is the least bit exotic that sells for the same or less. I also can't think of one other remotely exotic car that can match its performance. I can think of lots of common and less expensive cars that have great performance, and that's what most can afford to buy.
You have my intent wrong as its not bashing the Gen 5 as i want the model to continue more than anyone and for this to happen it has to sell.Unless something dramathic SALES WISE happens soon its over DONT YOU GUYS REALIZE THIS.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
You are blabbing to people who have already paid money for Gen V's to why you think (the important part here) sales are down.
We've all heard these theories for the last year+
None of us care.
Instead, you come in and complain about things that won't change about the car. Which, isn't productive. So, tell us again about the 50 cars you've sold and how fast some guy drives your car, because it means as much as why you think the car isn't selling.
REALLY then why are dealers discounting into the holdback and still not moving them Trust me on this if a dealer is into the holdback on a model that was introduced 5 months ago theres a slght prob .As of last week there 75 2013and Gen 5 on national floorplan and ove 140 2014 s.
I do not think that it requires something "dramatic". It does require that the sales momentum started by the success of the TA continue and I think that SRT is well aware of that.
There is another factor to selling to prior Gen owners. Many of us were/are more than a little emotionally attached to our Vipers. Particularly if someone has taken the time and money to mod the car to their liking. So moving to the new Generation requires an emotional adjustment.
I went through this with my well modded Gen III. It was a gradual process that culminated in my viewing; sitting in; and starting up the TA an hour after it was delivered to the dealer. It was love at first hiss. After my trade in found a new home, the last of my guilt over "abandoning" my prior Viper was resolved.
I think that anyone who actually uses the car a bit for spirited driving who checks out a TA will be hard pressed not to buy one. They are that good.
There is another factor to selling to prior Gen owners. Many of us were/are more than a little emotionally attached to our Vipers. Particularly if someone has taken the time and money to mod the car to their liking. So moving to the new Generation requires an emotional adjustment.
I went through this with my well modded Gen III. It was a gradual process that culminated in my viewing; sitting in; and starting up the TA an hour after it was delivered to the dealer. It was love at first hiss. After my trade in found a new home, the last of my guilt over "abandoning" my prior Viper was resolved.
I think that anyone who actually uses the car a bit for spirited driving who checks out a TA will be hard pressed not to buy one. They are that good.
You bought one Viper in your life What i will do fo you is LET YOU KNOW THE VERY FIRST DAY THE COUPON ARRIVES ITS COMING
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
Dealers ordered too many cars with too many options. SRT flubbed the launch with poorly prepped cars that got tested and reviewed poorly, and that killed demand. That's how inventory swelled, public responded with concern, and it's going to take time and serious discounting to get the back log sold. Sales projections were thrown off by Motor Trend's bad reviews and SRT is still catching up with the stale inventory that resulted. This is a basic cause and effect that you are trying to blame on something else.
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
I agree with you 100%, the price point was missed on this car. A loaded $140K+ GTS new being had for $100-$110K shows something. I like the new look of the car, but I can not comprehend that I am supposed to be spending well over $100K for it. At this price point, I have many other options, and my car wont still be a Dodge. Dodge is not a company that should produce $140K+ cars that were half the price only a few years prior.
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DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
I am still kicking myself for not purchasing then, what a deal that was. They should do this now, but since the cars are in dealer hands now, and not at the factory like back then, Chrysler could care less.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
On the pricing issue, I am a bit surprised. think of the following:
2005 Gen3 was 85k in 2005
2010 Gen 4 was 95k in 2010
Gen5 can be had for 90k-110k easy for SRT on the low end or GTS on higher end.
So, why does anyone think it should be priced at 85k (05 pricing) ??? sure, if new GTS's were under 100k, I probably would have a coupe in my house even though I am waiting for the conv, but not sure I expect its price to be there.
2005 Gen3 was 85k in 2005
2010 Gen 4 was 95k in 2010
Gen5 can be had for 90k-110k easy for SRT on the low end or GTS on higher end.
So, why does anyone think it should be priced at 85k (05 pricing) ??? sure, if new GTS's were under 100k, I probably would have a coupe in my house even though I am waiting for the conv, but not sure I expect its price to be there.
I agree with Endeka regarding the GEN V styling. I've never heard any negative comments about the styling and in fact as a Corvette owner (C6) I'm very attracted to the Viper vs C7 Z06 (coupe & vert) which does not appeal to me. I selfishly anticipated that 2013 Vipers will continue to devalue like a cement dirigible, and I will be able to acquire one in the fall. There are currently listed on Cars.com alone, 268 2013's collecting dust. I'm hoping to acquire a CF loaded GTS with red interior from one of those over optioned dealerships who intended to get big profits, and now are going to have to eat the car or sell it to me!
The Viper is one hell of a car when you consider the hand build top quality paint and interior, and awesome power. I think we all know all the areas where SRT dropped the ball in terms of promotion, customer orders (must be 1st), prepping test models, poor dealership accessibility, pricing, media management, unlocking the ecm for mods, etc., etc.
It's a really great car and it costs to have upper end assembly, paint 2nd to none (maybe to a RR), top quality interior, etc. I don't think that the public in general would rather fore go the aesthetics I appreciate for same level of performance in a Corvette with the lesser paint, interior, assembly, etc. People like cheap, unless you are in the upper echelon of exotics where price plays a minor role. Dodge, Chevrolet, or Nissan are limiting name plates.
Enjoy what you have and don't beat yourself up too much because it's not the car, it's the price & the promotion (or lack there of) that is hurting the Viper imo.
The Viper is one hell of a car when you consider the hand build top quality paint and interior, and awesome power. I think we all know all the areas where SRT dropped the ball in terms of promotion, customer orders (must be 1st), prepping test models, poor dealership accessibility, pricing, media management, unlocking the ecm for mods, etc., etc.
It's a really great car and it costs to have upper end assembly, paint 2nd to none (maybe to a RR), top quality interior, etc. I don't think that the public in general would rather fore go the aesthetics I appreciate for same level of performance in a Corvette with the lesser paint, interior, assembly, etc. People like cheap, unless you are in the upper echelon of exotics where price plays a minor role. Dodge, Chevrolet, or Nissan are limiting name plates.
Enjoy what you have and don't beat yourself up too much because it's not the car, it's the price & the promotion (or lack there of) that is hurting the Viper imo.
TrackAire
Enthusiast
I think you nailed a good portion of the issues....bad marketing, bad promotion and bad public image of the car in the press. This did not help sales in the least. Money is not the issue. If the car is desirable and a hot commodity it will sell, even if it is a "Dodge", lol. The economy is not the issue. Money is out there. We too bought a Range Rover and were shocked at the lack of inventory and high demand for the car. This is the first new car I bought that I was only able to negotiate less than a 3% discount off MSRP. (but the wife loved it and I would have paid MSRP happily if need be as she deserved it). Once I got home and started to do some nationwide searches I found out I was lucky to get that much off. People will buy if they feel it is the hot new thing, looks great, has world class performance, etc. If money was the issue, then Tesla would not be selling $75K electric four door sedans and a lot of middle income guys would not be buying $65k turbo diesel pickup trucks.
Where money does become the issue is all the above that needs to be satisfied to make the buyers want to spend the money. Outstanding reviews by the automotive press, world class performance, delivery schedules that are on time, first rate quality control, big hp numbers, dealership support, factory support, etc. But Chrysler has also missed the boat big time on the intangibles. Where is the Mopar support with aftermarket products? Why no tuning? Why the crazy prices for the few parts that are available through Mopar? This is American muscle and as such it is customary to be able to mod your car. I've ******* about this in the past, but people I deal with internationally won't even consider the Gen 5 because of its lame duck status on the modification aspect. A car dude it Dubai does not want to be embarrassed by a pulley and tune Mustang. A young Russian with a healthy appetite for side by side roll racing needs to be over 800 hp to keep up with the other competitors. Money is not the issue, these guys will spend the bucks to modify the car. But if the car costs 3 to 4 times more to modify than other vehicle choices, they won't do it because they feel they would look like a ***** to their peers if they went that route.
Since the car has fallen short of its potential (press reviews, quality control, delivery issues, horsepower numbers where they need to be, etc) money now becomes the issue because of perceived value. As the pricing starts to fall, units will sell. Would they have sold for $125k to $140k?, yes if all the above demands were met. But since the car fell short, so does the price. The pricing won't help sells much today, but towards the end of summer I expect a lot of Vipers to move as new cars get marked into the high $80k range. At that point, it is a performance bargain. Sad, but supply and demand will ultimately set the price.
As much as I love the Gen 5 looks and performance, I'm afraid the corporate bean counters have taken over. The Chrysler Board of Directors have lost the value of having a world class "Halo" car. Very rarely does a halo car make a large profit, often times losing money. But the marketing, promotion and dreams it creates cannot be measured based on that models sales volume. Chrysler has lost the emotion of what it takes to build, market and support a world class performance car. I hope I'm wrong, but I really don't see a bright future for the possibility a Gen 6 Viper.
George
Best post in the entire thread. It hits every issue perfectly.
Flying Viper
Enthusiast
Well Jon, you are 100% correct. This is why I have not bought a new one. My first Viper was a 96 coupe. 2nd was a 03 Vert and then a 06 Coupe. I was hoping for a big body change to the future, not a remake of my old 96. There is a saying "Been there Done that" Not to mention the $140K price tag.
Redesign this car now before its dead.
08viperviolet
Enthusiast
If you d not like the gen v don't buy it when I had gen 3 and 4 people would tell me they prefer the earlier ones. Each to there own.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Would someone force you to buy the fully loaded GTS and not a base SRT?
It is hilarious people are still beating the Viper up over being "$140,000" - I guess it is a easy way to dismiss it.
The EARLY Gen 3 sold then tanked The Gen 4 WAS TERRIBLE (The car stickered in the 90s BUT DEALERS COULD NOT GIVE THEM AWAY. Many only sold because of the 35 K off coupon).Now we are at 100-150 k Pull a Low mileage Ferrari 430 up and put it next to a Gen 5 and you tell me if both cars are the same price what the public will spend the money on
Whats up buddy .You will get a shot at at a Gen 5 soon with an price structure as the Gen 4 with the coupon .There so many units on dealer floorplan that they cant move (even selling them into the holdback )its inevitable something will happen Dodge Dealers are not accustom in floorplanning 100k plus cars .The dealers will ultimately put pressure on the zone reps to do something to sell these cars If the dealers STOP ORDERING other Dodge -Chrysler products because they are ******* PAYING VIPER FLOORPLAN =COUPON TIME
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