Will the 2009 Viper get a HP boost to Head off the ZR-1?

[Flash1034]

With the stated HP rating of the new 09 ZR-1 at "620+" HP, do you guys think the 2009 Viper will get a HP boost to head off the competitor? It would seem that with the 10 cylinders and relatively low compression ratio of the Viper, an extra amount of HP wouldnt be all that hard to do, but Im no engineer. What do you guys think? Any Viper rumors brewing?

Flash

 

[sun diego]

It costs so much to recertify an engine, especially per car on such a limited run that I think we are stuck with "just" 600+ hp.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Maybe they will offer the Mopar package as a dealer installed option just to shut them up (I bet offering it from the factory would mean stepping on the toes of the EPA)?

 

[Flash1034]

I'd hate for our "bragging rights" as "King of the Hill" to only last for one year...

Flash

 

[Roadrunner]

Maybe they'll put the headers in the trunk just like the old Hurst Olds.... manifold from the factory... but free headers in the trunk... ha.

I bet the fruits and nuts at EPA / CARB closed that old loophole long ago.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Mark my words, for track guys, I seriously doubt the ZR1 will keep up with an ACR on a road course ---- weight distribution, heat soak, and other issues will be it's demise, but the Snake will slither around alot faster.It will likely be quick in a straight line, but beyond that the Viper will still be the King of the Hill, the valley, and around the bend.

 

[MikeR]

Duh... There coming out with a 900hp Twin Turbo Supercharged Viper.

Seriously, I think Dodge will come out with something, I remember the SRT guys saying,"Dont worry, we have some tricks". But its way to early to start the rumors or talking. The ZR1 hasnt even hit the streets to actually give SRT something to shoot for. Who knows, maybe Dodge wont do much at all.

 

[ViperNM]

Mark my words, for track guys, I seriously doubt the ZR1 will keep up with an ACR on a road course ---- weight distribution, heat soak, and other issues will be it's demise, but the Snake will slither around alot faster.It will likely be quick in a straight line, but beyond that the Viper will still be the King of the Hill, the valley, and around the bend.

I must be missing something here. The new ZR-1 is supposed to have 120+ more horsepower than the Z06 yet the car is almost 200 lbs. heavier than the Z06. That doesn't sound like much of an overall speed bump to me. And around the track the ACR should be seconds faster (not tenths of seconds) than the ZR-1. Am I on crack, is the Albuquerque sun melting my mind or am I spot on?

 

[The Great One]

Duh... There coming out with a 900hp Twin Turbo Supercharged Viper.

Seriously, I think Dodge will come out with something, I remember the SRT guys saying,"Dont worry, we have some tricks". But its way to early to start the rumors or talking. The ZR1 hasnt even hit the streets to actually give SRT something to shoot for. Who knows, maybe Dodge wont do much at all.

My guess is that their "trick" was the ACR. Competition is always good though, and I am sure you won't have any problems with those pesky vettes in a straight line.

 

[ulllose]

I will have to say that I think the zr-1 is going to be one bad ass machine. I think it will take top honors when it hits the street, road course and straight line acceleration. Yes the car is 200 pounds heavier but it will be atleast 115 more horse than the current zo-6 which gives the gen 3 and 3.5 a run. I hope dodge comes back with something but I think we are heading into a horsepower crunch within the next 4-5 years. Sure some of these High horse power car are getting decent gas milage, but I do believe the automakers will really start turning there direction to electric, which will smash all dreams of 600-700-800 horsepower cars. Just my observation......................

 

[RTTTTed]

We could just do what many are already doing and yap. There is no ZR1 yet - just talk. I guess we'll just wait and see if it can stand up to all the talk about how "great it is."

The mags do most of the talk and somehow they tested Vipers and they lose? So it's not about reality or faster the mags are about vettes win. Now they're way too slow to even bother comparing to a Viper so they're talking about the non-existent vette "it's so great."???

The vette guys are all pissed that their vettes break so much and I'd expect vette tests of the ZR1 will have breakage problems. Good thing I've got a Viper. Good thing I've got a Supercharger and kick all vettes - even non-existent ones.

I admire GM for finally trying to keep up during the last decade or two, since their Z28s were getting kicked by Shelby Charger 4 cylinders. GM didn't even make an effort to keep up to a Hemi.

Hurst Olds came with headers in the trunk? You mean they finally copied Chryslers SS cars that came with headers in the trunk or mounted on the engine? Still waiting for a GM to be allowed to race in SS/A. Seems pretty much the same nowadays - either the governing body adds weight and restrictor plates or the Chev boys can't compete in racing.

Ted

 

[blue01gts]

They wont do anything for 09 because some 08's are running late and will be 09's and they cant bumb up the price on those people. my 2 cents

 

[sween]

not even most chevy people call the Zr-1 king of the hill....

I wouldn't even call it that either. Look the viper already has 600 hp, some stock dyno's are at 554 (which you might be able to classify that as 620). the Vette is supercharged, viper is N/A. The Zr-1 is in 6 digits for price, the viper is starting at 84K. There about the same weight, (the ACR ******** is almost exact same if not weighs a couple pounds less). Its like the old Zr-1 too, that had MORE hp than the gen 1 viper but WAS NOT king of the hill as I remember.

How is it king of the hill? Unless your just talking about HP? I thought king of the hill was the clear-cut winner? Well, if king of the hill is defined with the car that just has more HP, then it would be nice if dodge could bump the hp a little bit, but I think we should all be happy that dodge bumped the power from 510 to 600 IMHO

Btw MikeR, the tricks were the new ACR.

 

[snakeplissken]

Mark my words, for track guys, I seriously doubt the ZR1 will keep up with an ACR on a road course ---- weight distribution, heat soak, and other issues will be it's demise, but the Snake will slither around alot faster.It will likely be quick in a straight line, but beyond that the Viper will still be the King of the Hill, the valley, and around the bend.

I Agree the ACR will walk all over the ZR1 on a road course for reasons already mentioned.

 

[Coloviper]

Comes down to a complete package. Sure the ZR-1 looks good on paper. It has new for Corvette, exotic pieces, etc. but the Boss 429 Mustangs had the big exotic engines, etc. and they could barely if not mostly lose to their little Boss 302 or Mach 1 428CJ brothers. Show me one GTO Judge with a 400 Ram Air IV that lost to the 455 GTOs? It has to be the complete package to win.

Just because it looks good on paper, doesn't mean it will be good. Once they pop the top off the tuperware on the ZR1 and get some cars out, only then will we know it it smells sweet or if it stinks to high heaven. Personally, for the money and overall value, IF I had to buy a Vette, I would be going for a Z06. Good thing I don't HAVE to buy one.

I am willing to bet 75% of those ZR1s don't get out of the collections to be driven. It's a good on paper car, if you like that sort of thing.

 

[vipeuup]

There was one guy with a 08 Viper. The car had 1700miles on it, and it dynoed 560rwhp and 525ftlbs torque. Bonestock. Bonestock down to the paper airfilters. Im thinking that these new Vipers are putting out alot more than whats being disclosed. Secondly making more power with more miles on them to. That 560rwhp is right up there with the ZR1. Its going to be a good race between these 2. And of course the ZR1 definetly getting beat on the road course due to the heatsoak.

 

[Bobpantax]

With the stated HP rating of the new 09 ZR-1 at "620+" HP, do you guys think the 2009 Viper will get a HP boost to head off the competitor? It would seem that with the 10 cylinders and relatively low compression ratio of the Viper, an extra amount of HP wouldnt be all that hard to do, but Im no engineer. What do you guys think? Any Viper rumors brewing?
Flash

I asked Dick Winkles whether there were any plans to increase the HP beyond 600 at the recent Mar a Lago event. His answer was: "No". The ACR will exceed the road course performance of the ZR1 without any additional mods. SRT was aware of the ZR1 while they were creating the ACR and took it into consideration. How do I know this? Herb H. told me. As to the quarter mile, we will have to wait and see. The Aerodynamics and downforce of the ACR are phenominal.

 

[Les Quam]

I agree with Bill Pemberton and others I think the ACR is Dodge's answer to the current ZR1. The ACR given equal drivers will post significantly lower lap times than a stock ZR1. The 08 Viper will probably lose a few street races though? The question is whether Chevy comes out with a track ready version of it's ZR1?

I can't see how anyone could be disappointed with the performance of the new Viper? You have the options of a drop top vintage Shelby Cobra style 600 HP Viper, a coupe Viper or a true track ready ACR Viper all with 600 screaming ponies. Not to mention a bunch of low volume colors and interior options.

 

[SylvanSRT]

Another to throw an opinion in the hat, and I also agree with Bill P. the extra weight of the ZR-1 over the ZO6 and heat soak of the S/C will not bring consistently faster lap times than the ACR and poss. even the reg SRT-10

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Dodge could get 20hp out of just changing the chip. I like it dependable.

 

[black mamba1]

Hey guys,

If you go back and look at the last SRT engineers discussion, I asked the SRT engineer point blank, "Is the ACR Dodge's response to the ZR1?".

The engineer responded, "Yes, and you will like it!".

The Zr1 will be a monster in straightline acceleration w/ its 3:42 gearing. The main problem for this car will be yes, traction. W/ the roots style blower and power coming on early in the power band I think it will be a major challenge to get the car to stick, but Chevy spent millions to solve that problem (magnetic suspension and other goodies). The best Gen 4 time we have seen so far is 11.18, and that was w/ a quaife and 3:33's. I think the best stock Gen 4 time we have seen is like 11.4-ish.

SRT mentioned in Viper Magazine that to tweak even 20 more hp would have required all kinds of expensive testing and recertification, etc. But I think if Dodge simply offered a 3:33 or 3:45 gearing option, we would be neck in neck w/ the Zr1. Road and Track is predicting 11.2 in the 1/4 for the Zr1.

NOW, if Cerebus steps up to the plate and really commits to the Viper, they could simply offer the Mopar packaged option for the Gen 4 and that car should make 680-700 hp, now you are talking about a car that will run mid to low 10's!

 

[Nsane1]

To the OP question: "No" is the answer. 1) It costs too much (they aren't putting money into the to recertify and engine 2) RWHP wise, I bet the viper has more already, and IF not, simply add the mopar package, and that's the answer 3) ACR handles it very well.

 

[ViperNM]

SRT mentioned in Viper Magazine that to tweak even 20 more hp would have required all kinds of expensive testing and recertification, etc. But I think if Dodge simply offered a 3:33 or 3:45 gearing option, we would be neck in neck w/ the Zr1. Road and Track is predicting 11.2 in the 1/4 for the Zr1.

Road & Crap is predicting what? Vaporware is what I call it. Until a production representative ZR-1 becomes available it's all wishful thinking (at least to R&T and the rest of the bow tie crowd)

NOW, if Cerebus steps up to the plate and really commits to the Viper, they could simply offer the Mopar packaged option for the Gen 4 and that car should make 680-700 hp, now you are talking about a car that will run mid to low 10's!

I have about as much confidence in Cerebus doing good by the Viper as I do in R&T's ability to be objective!

 

[black mamba1]

I will say this again, dont sleep on Chevy. Those boys have deep pockets over there and a Vette following that makes us look like a minor cult.

Do you really think Chevy would build a Vette and create all this hoopla and charge 100k for it if it only marginally outperforms the Z06? No way jose, not in a million years. I am telling you....that Zr1 is going to be everything Chevy is touting. It will **** as a track car, but they have already said the Z06 will remain their track car. But in a straight line, it will be one mean *****.

 

[Bobpantax]

If by Mopar package, everyone is referring to the enhancements that were on the carbon Viper at the auto show, such a package is not going to be produced. Mopar has indicated that since the Viper is produced in such low numbers, it will not be doing such a package for the Gen IV. Part of the issue is that to do the package correctly, per Dick Winkles, certain programming tweaks are required. Of course that does not prevent Viperheads from otherwise modding their cars since the carbon Viper package was for off road use only anyway. Also, as long as the subject has to do with modding the Gen IV, Dick also said that he would not increase the HP of the car beyond the stock 600 HP without changing out the pistons. He said they are the same pistons used in the SRT 8's and are good pistins but not meant for use beyond 600 HP. The new engine is a fine piece but far more complicated than the Gen III and Gen II engines. The additional complexity creates a more challenging environment within which to implement modifications.

 

[Tusc]

Gentlemen, continue.

So the first ACRs have been / are being delivered now, yes? I imagine it won't be more than a month before we begin seeing solid times out of them and discovering how the aerodynamics affect 1/4 traps.

ZR1... we can balk at it all we want, but even we are only taking educated guesses at it like R&T until someone puts it on a straight section of asphalt. I guarantee they are going to be bringing along a pickup with a bed full of crushed ice and some big fans with a tent though. The body on that car may be goofy looking, but the drivetrain remains a sledgehammer of a V8.

 

[fastmd]

Gentlemen, continue.

So the first ACRs have been / are being delivered now, yes? I imagine it won't be more than a month before we begin seeing solid times out of them and discovering how the aerodynamics affect 1/4 traps.

ZR1... we can balk at it all we want, but even we are only taking educated guesses at it like R&T until someone puts it on a straight section of asphalt. I guarantee they are going to be bringing along a pickup with a bed full of crushed ice and some big fans with a tent though. The body on that car may be goofy looking, but the drivetrain remains a sledgehammer of a V8.

No ACRs have been delivered yet

 

[fastmd]

If by Mopar package, everyone is referring to the enhancements that were on the carbon Viper at the auto show, such a package is not going to be produced. Mopar has indicated that since the Viper is produced in such low numbers, it will not be doing such a package for the Gen IV. Part of the issue is that to do the package correctly, per Dick Winkles, certain programming tweaks are required. Of course that does not prevent Viperheads from otherwise modding their cars since the carbon Viper package was for off road use only anyway. Also, as long as the subject has to do with modding the Gen IV, Dick also said that he would not increase the HP of the car beyond the stock 600 HP without changing out the pistons. He said they are the same pistons used in the SRT 8's and are good pistins but not meant for use beyond 600 HP. The new engine is a fine piece but far more complicated than the Gen III and Gen II engines. The additional complexity creates a more challenging environment within which to implement modifications.

So are you saying that with adding headers/corsa etc., the pistons should be changed

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Hey guys,

If you go back and look at the last SRT engineers discussion, I asked the SRT engineer point blank, "Is the ACR Dodge's response to the ZR1?".

The engineer responded, "Yes, and you will like it!".

The Zr1 will be a monster in straightline acceleration w/ its 3:42 gearing. The main problem for this car will be yes, traction. W/ the roots style blower and power coming on early in the power band I think it will be a major challenge to get the car to stick, but Chevy spent millions to solve that problem (magnetic suspension and other goodies). The best Gen 4 time we have seen so far is 11.18, and that was w/ a quaife and 3:33's. I think the best stock Gen 4 time we have seen is like 11.4-ish.

SRT mentioned in Viper Magazine that to tweak even 20 more hp would have required all kinds of expensive testing and recertification, etc. But I think if Dodge simply offered a 3:33 or 3:45 gearing option, we would be neck in neck w/ the Zr1. Road and Track is predicting 11.2 in the 1/4 for the Zr1.

NOW, if Cerebus steps up to the plate and really commits to the Viper, they could simply offer the Mopar packaged option for the Gen 4 and that car should make 680-700 hp, now you are talking about a car that will run mid to low 10's!

Dick Winkle told us at our Mar-A-Largo luncheon, that while they put 1000lbs of down force on the ACR for better handling. Chevrolets Z06 took off down force ( minus –246ibs ) at the same speed just to give it a higher top end speed. Scary

 

[pteam]

Doesnt the supercharger of the ZR1 take horsepower to run it? So wouldn't 620 hp actually be less than the vipers 600 n/a? Also in low revs the supercharger won't have boost thus the n/a viper engine would have advantage there also. The problem might be is the zr1 supercharger might be easily modded with just a new pulley on the supercharger which could add who knows 20-50 more hp.