ACRX Headers

[VicTxV10]

No trying to fan the flames, but are these headers truly trademarked? How so? Is 'BBG' trademarked? (I know, the fuel additive is BG.) Is 'ACRX' trademarked? There is an old slogan in law...'caveat emptor' (let the buyer beware). Another slogan...'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.' BBG should be proud that its product is being copied, and tout it's quality over the competition.

While it is true that "let the buyer beware", there is only ONE header that Dodge puts on the ACRX. The OP of this thread asked for ACRX headers, not style or knock offs or sort of looks like, but ACRX headers. The vendor that sold these to me posted a few times that he had a "screamin" deal on a set. Those post have been removed by someone. Anyway, back to the story, I sent a PM asking the price, thought it was good for what was being asked for in the thread, paid for them. I paid close to what the real headers cost. Vendor said he only had one set and was making the deal to move them out. Sounded good to me.

Now the eBay add is different as it stated they are ACRX "style" headers which leads me to think that they are NOT the real deal and therefore I should not expect the same header as the real thing. Also the price of the eBay headers were $875 and in that instance, YES, you get what you pay for.

If you posted a thread that said you needed an new set StopTech slotted rotors for your ACR and a site supporting vendor posted saying he has a set and can make you a good deal because it is a one set only sort of thing, would you question the validity of it being a knock off/fake if it was $200 cheaper than buying from a StopTech vendor? I would probably say you wouldn't, your getting a good deal saving $200 from what appears to be a trusted source on the VCA. Now when you receive them and you find out what you have is really a Chinese import that you can buy the whole set off eBay for the $200 you saved, do you still think that it's "buyer beware"?

Murray

 

[tzortzViper]

Boxer12,

.......
What about that tacked on merged collector spike, what if it breaks off and comes out the exhaust, again cutting a tire down at race speeds?...

Or maybe someone can swallow it by mistake, if he has his windows open... (his mouth also)...




.

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

This is an interesting thread. To play the devil's advocate, the ACRX headers 5-1 are not a unique design (its been around for years) and look a lot like some Mopar headers I put on my GTS years ago (ok, the pipes bend a little differently). Who own's the rights to 'ACRX' or 'BBG' (isn't that a fuel product??) Who stole from whom? Apparently, you are buying various levels of quality and performance...that's it. Personally, I would buy better quality from reputable vendors, but that is a matter of choice.

No trying to fan the flames, but are these headers truly trademarked? How so? Is 'BBG' trademarked? (I know, the fuel additive is BG.) Is 'ACRX' trademarked? There is an old slogan in law...'caveat emptor' (let the buyer beware). Another slogan...'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.' BBG should be proud that its product is being copied, and tout it's quality over the competition.

Boxer12,

I go back a little further maybe, "BG" to me stands for Barry Grant the Pro-Stock, Sprint Car and Nascar modified Holley Racing Carburetors. Barry took his product to the next level many moons ago and started building inhouse his re-designed carburetor bodies with much respect & success. Great example of filling the void for our high performance marketplace with an American improved product.

I'm sure that the VCA members that were duped might think "buyer beware" would be less of an issue when purchasing from a site supporting vendor, to play out the "Devils Advocate" scenario thouroughly that you've pitched.

I don't speak for other Corporations, but I can speak for "BBG" which is an abbreviation for =BAD BOYZZ GARAGE TM= my company, passion & lively hood and =BAD BOYZZ SERIES TM= my company's high performance parts, products & apparel division.

I appreciate your comments, but what you most likely don't know or realize by your specific "defense type language" is that Chrysler, American Racing Headers and BBG are not the only companies that have been sold out in this situation. "Buyer Beware" may now apply to your brand of choice as well as others.

I only post facts. I did not think it necessary to compare an obvious sub-standard header. Even the untrained eye once seeing these photos can recognize the Chinese Knock off's extremely poor construction quality and would not be considered competition.

Our concern with Chinese manufacturing when pertaining to our Race Industry is quality & safety first! We have so few precision machined products left that are maunfactured in the USA that need to be protected and preserved, we'd probably all agree on this point. Maybe some may want to thank this vendor for giving our Dodge Viper header designs to the Chinese Manufacturing Industry, but we won't and consider this action Un-American! As we all know when traces of "Lead" started showing up in our childrens HOT WHEELS and other toy products, those manufactures did not really give a damm, it's only our children? The damage is done now & we can't unscrew the pooch.

I respect your opinion & I'm sure you can respect many others likewise.

On a positive note, great job on your ACR!

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[Jerome Sparich]

OT just for a minute

Toddy, did you know that Barry Grant recently lost everything? From business to his home.

Nothing is safe or a sure deal today. Even with the clientele he has/had.

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

OT just for a minute

Toddy, did you know that Barry Grant recently lost everything? From business to his home.

Nothing is safe or a sure deal today. Even with the clientele he has/had.

Yes I did Jerome and thanks for taking notice on my post. You are a great example that confirms my beliefs that we are a savy and intelligent group on the VCA!

This is the road that the US based Viper Tuners and Performance Parts Manufacturer's are headed in if we keep supporting companies that take our American made products with no conscience and send them over to China via Fedex to be copied at substandard levels for cheap profits (extraordinarily greedy with no sense of innovation).

Barry Grant is legenadary and deserved the proops!

Thanks,
BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[Boxer12]

Toddy (Murray), I don't know the facts exactly, but if a vendor deliberately represented his known Chinese product to be "BAD BOYZZ GARAGE" headers, then it is fraud by the vendor.

Murray, if I posted that I wanted some Stoptech rotors and someone posted or sent me a message that they had a set of something, I would confirm that they were "Stoptech" before I sent any money. (I also use a CC so I can cancel payment if I get something other than what I ordered). If I posted that I want an "ACR wing," and someone said they had one, I would confirm that it was "Dodge OEM" before buying. I also make sure I know who I am dealing with before making any purchase. That's why I don't generally buy on fleabay. I understand your frustration, as it sounds like someone was playing fast and loose with you and you got burned.

Toddy, thanks for the compliment. I trust that the Viper racing and VCA community will recognize and support your quality work and products (as well as other well respected race shops), and the vast majority will buy them from a respected vendor. (Do your homework before buying guys).

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Toddy (Murray), I don't know the facts exactly, but if a vendor deliberately represented his known Chinese product to be "BAD BOYZZ GARAGE" headers, then it is fraud by the vendor.

Murray, if I posted that I wanted some Stoptech rotors and someone posted or sent me a message that they had a set of something, I would confirm that they were "Stoptech" before I sent any money. (I also use a CC so I can cancel payment if I get something other than what I ordered). If I posted that I want an "ACR wing," and someone said they had one, I would confirm that it was "Dodge OEM" before buying. I also make sure I know who I am dealing with before making any purchase. That's why I don't generally buy on fleabay. I understand your frustration, as it sounds like someone was playing fast and loose with you and you got burned.

Toddy, thanks for the compliment. I trust that the Viper racing and VCA community will recognize and support your quality work and products (as well as other well respected race shops), and the vast majority will buy them from a respected vendor. (Do your homework before buying guys).

Thanks Boxer12,

I believe your statements were good because they "fueled" intelligent dialogue and I respect that way of thinking. There are many competent companies that have been misled by this vendor who now has possession of their hard work (products), so we all need to be sensitive to the consumer who has been targeted. This is why I know when Murray paid $2,200 for a set of ACRX Headers from a VCA vendor not $895 from Fleabag he thought he was getting that last one in stock type of deal pitched. This has happened to several VCA members who feel ripped-off.

So how does your ACR move, pretty good now!?

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[twinturbo3150]

you were the same guy that was going to do Bypass exhaust screamer valves...lol

these headers are obviously junk and no comparison to the american racing headers, but you keep telling yourself they are great, just like the screamer valves.

lol! go go gadget screamer valves

 

[tzortzViper]

Boxer12,

...What about that tacked on merged collector spike, what if it breaks off and comes out the exhaust, again cutting a tire down at race speeds? ...

....or breaks of going through the cats and get rocketted to the nearest nuclear plant.... exploding and making a nuclear disaster....

 

[Mad Max Performance]

Id like to see close up pics of the Domestic headers.

 

[Dan Cragin]

I have seen many a copy of a original design fail. From brake rotors to exhaust parts. i see this all the time on Mercedes Benz performance parts.

Years ago I bought some "direct replacement brake rotors" for a track car that were sold by a large and reputable company (OE manufacturer). They cracked and came apart on the track. Turns out they were made by a "new" outside manufacturer and the parts I bought were not what they had originally tested.

Buyer Beware!

 

[Y2K5SRT]

So here is my "fear" in this situation. Let's say an ex Corvette owner wants to have a better track weapon and buys a 2009 Viper Coupe and puts on aftermarket "ACR" wings, splitters, etc to make it look like a real ACR.

*snip*

I don't know if BBG is trademarked, but I'll bet that any name on the side of the car is (Viper, ACR, ACRX, SRT etc). I would think those names are owned and protected by Dodge.

So, from a legal standpoint is it wrong for fake parts to be marketed under the original name?....isn't there any legal recourse here for either BBG or Dodge to get these fake parts stopped?

Interesting questions and interesting dilemma for everyone involved, including the VCA. The challenge is that many aftermarket Viper vendors use the Viper name and even the licensed logos without permission. We know that Chrysler legal is cracking down on the practice and that Mopar is going after those vendors that are making parts while referencing the Mopar name or in some cases, even attempting to repackage knockoff parts in Mopar boxes or with Mopar paperwork.

So take it to the next level - can a seller mention the name Dodge, Mopar, Viper, RT/10, ACR, etc. in the ad and still stay "legal"? For example, there are some aftermarket "ACR look" aero bits for sale here on the forums by a well-known vendor, parts that are most likely made in China as that is where the manufacturer imports from. The ad doesn't say anything about being Mopar parts, but says it gives you the ACR look for a fraction of the cost. Is that misleading as long as it doesn't mention performance? Or will that owner (or the next one) think they have all the tools to go fast and then start dropping parts on the track? Again, there is nothing misleading or illegal about selling the parts that way and they may be perfectly fine. But it goes back to the heart of the discussion about discount (in this case Chinese) parts going on Vipers.

There are a number of reputable manufacturers that make parts for the Viper. A few are tested by Chrysler/SRT, some are even purchased for production like the American Racing headers and Optima Batteries that go in the ACR-X. But there are also a LOT of parts that will fit on a Viper (barely in some cases) that have absolutely no testing behind them and are designed solely to make money for the manufacturer and sellers. Mopar puts every part they make through an incredible amount of bench and real-world testing so that they are proven before they ever go on a car. When they outsource they put those products through extensive testing as well.

There is always a place for reputable manufacturers to sell Viper products and give consumers confidence when they purchase them. "Disposable" and interchangeable products like oil, filters, brake pads, tires, and even certain exhaust parts are generally a safe bet when purchased from nationally-known companies. When it becomes more "Viper-centric" such as headers for an aluminum V10 you have to do your homework. It is a limited market with limited suppliers and somebody will always try to make an extra buck by taking a few shortcuts. As Viper owners, we just have to stay vigilant that it isn't us getting shorted - or worse.

 

[plumcrazy]

true chris but its not our place to police it. we should be screaming and pointing out to people here about the quality. kinda like we do with henessey......

there are guys here (myself) included who at times like to save a buck on some things and go the cheaper route. those guys should have the opportunity to do so. but if that part is misrepresented then a whistle needs to be blown and if the originating part mfg wants to take legal action, thats their fight and right to do so.

if a vendor went to china and made up some cheap headers based on a good design like the BBG then thats fine IMO. the vendor loses me when he markets that part as the same. but again it is BBG's and dodges problem and they have the right to go after that vendor. its our job to point these things out.

 

[tzortzViper]

true chris but its not our place to police it. we should be screaming and pointing out to people here about the quality. kinda like we do with henessey......

there are guys here (myself) included who at times like to save a buck on some things and go the cheaper route. those guys should have the opportunity to do so. but if that part is misrepresented then a whistle needs to be blown and if the originating part mfg wants to take legal action, thats their fight and right to do so.

if a vendor went to china and made up some cheap headers based on a good design like the BBG then thats fine IMO. the vendor loses me when he markets that part as the same. but again it is BBG's and dodges problem and they have the right to go after that vendor. its our job to point these things out.

I agree...

 

[plumcrazy]

no, no, no....now im gonna change my post

 

[tzortzViper]

no, no, no....now im gonna change my post

Did you change your mind...?

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

true chris but its not our place to police it. we should be screaming and pointing out to people here about the quality. kinda like we do with henessey......

there are guys here (myself) included who at times like to save a buck on some things and go the cheaper route. those guys should have the opportunity to do so. but if that part is misrepresented then a whistle needs to be blown and if the originating part mfg wants to take legal action, thats their fight and right to do so.

if a vendor went to china and made up some cheap headers based on a good design like the BBG then thats fine IMO. the vendor loses me when he markets that part as the same. but again it is BBG's and dodges problem and they have the right to go after that vendor. its our job to point these things out.

To clarify a few points you are most likely unaware of? or maybe not, you seem to know alot of VCA members.

The vendor that we are all speaking of which you're smart enough to figure out, has sent over to the Chinese Manufacturer everyones systems. Including your obvious brands of loyalty.

We have a person/vendor who single handedly gave all Viper designs to the Chinese Manufacturing Industry!

Does our country need to depend on foreign manufacturer's for everything including our Viper tuners and performance parts? It's going to be interesting when I see you post, since you post quite often "I just ordered my new Viper*** part", I can't wait until that boat from China get's here! Good luck with your warranty and technical support Dude

You're Viper loyal obviously, so it's interesting to see what flag you'll fly. I think the other manufacturer's your always pitching might disagree with you on this one?

BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[plumcrazy]

i do not know who this vendor is. i have an idea though.

todd, i hear what your saying but sadly, its the american way. id be willing to bet a good portion of the vipers we drive and love are made in other than the US to save money and be competitive. but im actually more on your side toddy in this case. i think if the parts were copied and sold as parts, thats fine and i will make a decision on my own if i want to buy it since thats my choice. if they were copied (poorly it seems) and SOLD AS BBG headers, i think its clearly wrong and i would clearly not support that.

look around your office or wherever you are sitting and try to find 3 things made in america (other than BBG stuff)....its not easy to do. look at your clothes, your electronics etc.... ALL OF THESE WERE ONCE MADE HERE ! why should headers be exclusive ?

 

[madbrian]

Id like to see close up pics of the Domestic headers.

same here, Toddy, please can you post detailed pictures of the BBG acrx headers showing porting and internal shots of the collector including the spike so we know what are genuine and what are chinese.

I am sure others here need to know so they don't end up buying and fitting inferior headers.

 

[Red Snake]

So who is the vendor that sent them out to be cloned?

If it can't be told publicly, someone pm me.

 

[CCBrian]

Is a Viper lighter than Air?

 

[plumcrazy]

hmmm, thats what i thought. thanx brian

 

[Red Snake]

lol.....

 

[Marc]

Fact Check:

Subject: Belanger Headers

I have personally installed dozens of GEN IV Belanger headers on 2008+ Vipers using the stock engine controller.

Not one car has thrown a check engine light.

Not one has failed an emissions test.

NOT ONE!

Possible Causes:
I suspect that if a customer has had a check engine light issue then look no farther than the installer.
Instructions should be read before the installation not after, if ever.

So don't attempt to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[plumcrazy]

and who are you marc ?

 

[Boxer12]

Chris, to follow up on what I think you are asking, IMO the VCA has the right to monitor vendor or ads on the VCA site activity for fraud or trademark violations, and deny sponsorship rights or ads. I think it should.

Suppliers, if you haven't filed for a trademark on your name or unique product (name it, like 'Strafer' heads or 'Big Boys Garage' or 'BBG' or 'BBG-ACRX' headers), do so yesterday. It is done by contacting your Secy of State, filling out a form and paying a small fee. Usually can be done online. You can then challenge any vendor that violates (unauthorized use) your trademark,and VCA can deny sponsorship rights and ban them from posting any violative message or ad. Hope that answers your question.

Toddy, my ACR runs like a scolded dog. I was surprised how smooth it runs too with the heads/intake. I hope to see lots of 'BBG' dogs at the track to play with. Now that I am back in CO, I expect to get further West this year. See you at the track!

 

[Dan Cragin]

Hi Mark,
I have installed both Belanger and ACRX headers. Both systems work great but both have thrown a catalyst code under some driving conditions. Please feel free to contact me if you have some way to correct this. We have found the only way to do that is to de-sensitize the downstream sensor, not easy. Being that both these systems are for off road use, we feel the Mopar controller is the best fix for this. Just my opinion, whats yours?

 

[Boxer12]

The downstream sensor can be unplugged with the Belangers and Mopar PCM combo with no CEL. I have done it.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Chris, to follow up on what I think you are asking, IMO the VCA has the right to monitor vendor or ads on the VCA site activity for fraud or trademark violations, and deny sponsorship rights or ads. I think it should.

Agreed and already put into practice in the past - when we can catch it. Ironically, the last time we got dragged into a trademark situation was when a reputable header manufacturer (yep, headers again) created an ad that erroneously mentioned Chrysler testing. It was a gray area, as they had indeed been tested by Chrysler - but it didn't mean endorsed. We were notified by the other party that there were concerns and we pulled it immediately, as well as made a very polite statement to clarify. We called the manufacturer personally and all was pretty well settled and understood. Unfortunately, one of his retailers then went after us (the VCA) like you wouldn't believe and made nasty posts, sent nasty emails, demanded names in Detroit, etc. We protected those folks then just as we would today - and protected the header manufacturer as we honestly believe that they did not intend to mislead in any way. They respectfully pulled the ad off their website and elsewhere, modified it to remove all reference to Chrysler, and all was right with the world. Well, as much as it could be, all things considered.

 

[Omega]

This is a real A&R sound with corsa:

YouTube - American racing headers w Corsa Viper 06

YouTube - img 0137