Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

[DEVILDOG]

Devildog:

HELLO HELLO HELLO -- Did you read the posts that someone put a thermo couple in front of the throttle body and it was the SAME as the outside air temp? Guess not. Perhaps you need to learn to read more carefully, then you might improve on yor 10 IQ. *****.

Boy are you STUPID! Yeah I read it, therfor, the underhood heat that the stock box ***** in will still be just as hot going into the TBs as it is under the hood!!!!!...*****!!! I'll take cooler outside ambient air through my VIPAIR that remains cooler per your arguement going through my TBs! I think I overstated your IQ at 10! Go away and leave me alone until you grow a brain!

 

[Torquemonster]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

Many people think and air scoop of some kind will give a ram air boost. It just ain't so.
Here's a link that gives the fluid dynamics of it in very understandable terms.

http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

And I think what he said.

read that link - it makes sense. I still see some potential gain from having cold air rather than hot air - but accept there is no ram air. Thanks for the link. This is actually good news because it means scoops/airboxes can be designed around looks and airflow rather than worrying about any false ram air effects. I've learned something

 

[vipah]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

Devildog:

You win the biggest ***** award! Maybe you need to learn to read. Go back and have your mother or father read the post to you again. They said that the temp right in front of the TBs was the SAME as holding it outside the window. Now if you think VIPAIR somehow makes the air cooler than outside I can double that magic bean order. LOL

Now you should just go away, you are making a complete ass of yourself.

LMAO

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

vipah,
He said it was the same as IF he had hung it out the window. I think he was just making a point that the air in front of the TBs was the same as it was when it entered the airbox. The point is there is no way underhood heated air is not much hotter than air coming through the front fascia. Maybe when you open your hood after a drive it's the same temperature as the ambient air because you're so STUPID you forgot to start your engine and were just coasting around...SUPER *****!

 

[vipah]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

Devildog:

Like I said before, you are making a complete ass of yourself. Please find an adult and have them explain things to you.

So how many magic beans should I sign you up for? LMAO

People like you continue to prove that P.T. Barnum was right.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

vipah,
Guess you ran out of credible things to say because you are WRONG! Looking at your avatar and sig you apparantly don't have any money left to do mods anyway...so you just try to put them down since you can't afford them. Maybe if you ever get any smarter someone will pay you more.....nah!

 

[mrviper99]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

Guys chill; In the statement the man made when he put the temp senser in the smooth tubes before his TB is correct. For a Gen 1 car that he has, all the air for the engine is pulled from the front facia, not partially from the NACA scoop on the engine compartment like the Gen 2.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

Guys chill; In the statement the man made when he put the temp senser in the smooth tubes before his TB is correct. For a Gen 1 car that he has, all the air for the engine is pulled from the front facia, not partially from the NACA scoop on the engine compartment like the Gen 2.

Even makes my point more valid! vipah you're even stupider now!

 

[vipah]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

Devildog:

So how many beans you want little boy? LOL

Are you getting dumber by the minute or what?

This doesn't make you point any more valid dumbo. In fact it clearly states that on Gen I it is completely invalid.

Please go talk to your mommy or daddy before you bang on the keyboard again.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

vipah,
I give up. You're too STUPID to know how STUPID you are and I'm not wasting anymore of my time. BTW, you sure are hung up on mommy and daddy...you move out of their house yet?

 

[vipah]

Re: Cold Air Viper intakes-Its a no win

Devildufus:

Check the classifieds for the magic HP beans. I'm holding your order. LOL

Now go sit in the corner with the dunce cap please.

 

[GR8_ASP]

HELLO...HELLO...HELLO...anybody out there listening? The VIPAIR replaces UNDERHOOD HEATED AIR with OUTSIDE AMBIENT AIR FROM THE FRONT FASCIA!!!! What do you think the temperature difference is between these two sources...maybe 400+ degrees cooler ambient than underhood? Now do your calculations to see if the VIPAIR adds much cooler air to your airbox intake, and therefor, additional HP & TQ! I think we are dealing with a lot of 10 IQs not 10 HP!

Wow! 400 degrees more underhood. Lets see on a 100 degree day that would be 500 degrees underhood. Wow!

Now how did the air passing through the radiator get hotter than the coolant it is cooling? I can't. Therefore the air immediately behind the radiator must be less than coolant temperature. I would guess the temperature in that region would max out somewhere near 150-200F when the car is moving (stationary temps would rise, but fall rapidly under motion). That would leave a delta temp of about 100F if all of the incoming air was from underhood. I would think the amount of underhood air versus outside air would be less than 50%. That leaves more like a 50F difference max.

Now chemistry experts, what is the difference in density of air at 80F versus 130? The ideal gas law is pV/T=constant (pV=nRT for you chemists). The pressure is a constant. Therefore the volume occupied is proportional to the temperature. Note the temp I will use are 300K (about 27C) and 325K. That results in about an 8% decrease in "air volume" at the higher temp. 8% for a Viper producing 410 RWHP is about 30 RWHP. Pretty measureable decrease. Now that is kind of a maximum scenario. But it does tell you that temperature has a real impact.

Now I severely doubt that you will find a temperature decrease as large as mentioned above.

Now since the Viper has a sensor measuring the inlet charge temperature, why doesn't someone with the cold air system just drive with the original and the new system and measure the real charge temp under normal driving conditions. I would hope any tuner worth his/her salt would be able to decipher the sensor voltage into a temperature. Then a very quick calculation can indicate the potential power increase due to the reduced charge temp.

 

[joe117]

And ViperSRT comes up with a scientific answer, the first one since near the start of the thread.

 

[DEVILDOG]

HELLO...HELLO...HELLO...anybody out there listening? The VIPAIR replaces UNDERHOOD HEATED AIR with OUTSIDE AMBIENT AIR FROM THE FRONT FASCIA!!!! What do you think the temperature difference is between these two sources...maybe 400+ degrees cooler ambient than underhood? Now do your calculations to see if the VIPAIR adds much cooler air to your airbox intake, and therefor, additional HP & TQ! I think we are dealing with a lot of 10 IQs not 10 HP!

Wow! 400 degrees more underhood. Lets see on a 100 degree day that would be 500 degrees underhood. Wow!

Now how did the air passing through the radiator get hotter than the coolant it is cooling? I can't. Therefore the air immediately behind the radiator must be less than coolant temperature. I would guess the temperature in that region would max out somewhere near 150-200F when the car is moving (stationary temps would rise, but fall rapidly under motion). That would leave a delta temp of about 100F if all of the incoming air was from underhood. I would think the amount of underhood air versus outside air would be less than 50%. That leaves more like a 50F difference max.

Now chemistry experts, what is the difference in density of air at 80F versus 130? The ideal gas law is pV/T=constant (pV=nRT for you chemists). The pressure is a constant. Therefore the volume occupied is proportional to the temperature. Note the temp I will use are 300K (about 27C) and 325K. That results in about an 8% decrease in "air volume" at the higher temp. 8% for a Viper producing 410 RWHP is about 30 RWHP. Pretty measureable decrease. Now that is kind of a maximum scenario. But it does tell you that temperature has a real impact.

Now I severely doubt that you will find a temperature decrease as large as mentioned above.

Now since the Viper has a sensor measuring the inlet charge temperature, why doesn't someone with the cold air system just drive with the original and the new system and measure the real charge temp under normal driving conditions. I would hope any tuner worth his/her salt would be able to decipher the sensor voltage into a temperature. Then a very quick calculation can indicate the potential power increase due to the reduced charge temp.

I was exaggerating to emphasize the point you so chemically and expertly provided. Well done! The LOGICAL point for anyone with any intelligence remains the same...the VIPAIR will provide cooler air to the airbox and, ergo, more HP & TQ from the engine.

 

[vipah]

Hey, Devildufus you did it again! You wear your stupidity like a badge of honor.

It doesn't say at all that the VIPAIR does this. Are you really that stupid or are you just trying to be a shill for the manufacturer? What it is is a good attempt at explaining the specific relationship between temp and HP.

Now get over here and buy those magic HP beans like a good little girl! LMAO

 

[jrkermode]

DEVILDOG, vipah,

Bench racing is supposed to be fun! Don't take it so seriously.


With respect to the Vetteguru comments,
This link has been posted before. The author gets all tangled up in too many "facts" and apparently gets confused. The author treats the air as though it is moving. The air is not moving, the car is moving. Why that matters is because the car's motion imparts energy into the system, energy the author does not include. That's how pressure on the nose of the car can be greater than the prevailing atmosphereic pressure. I'm not suggesting there is a zillion HP to be had, but ram air is not just marketing.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Vipah,

I thank you for your input on our product but , please consider the following, we have and will continue to test the VIPAIR™ and when we are ready we will supply all the test data. Up till now we have been using prototypes and later this week we will be shipping our new design which has double the colder air flow than the one GTSnake reported on. Hopefully at that point you will see the light, if not no hard feelings.

As for the patent the VIPAIR™ is in patent pending status, which if you know anything about patents means that a patent has been filed and is pending therefore we state pantent pending. We do alot of patents at my company and I am quite comfortable in defending them. The US patent office is about 2 years behind and we will be able to supply you a number in about a year and a half, please pm me a reminder to do this in 18 months, OK!!!

PS. I am nmoving to California in October, are you guys gonna let me join your club? I'll bring the GT2 I just bought!

Steve

 

[Russ M]

Devildog,

Lets see air coming from under side through a HOT radiator is cold right? And air coming through an open NACA duct is hotter than air being heated by a radiator correct?

Where is it that you think a gen 2 Viper gets its air from? I don't care how restricted the NACA duct is, it is always going to provide cooler air than front facia. Front facia air is being heated by the radiator/power steering/AC condenser.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Russ,

The VIPAIR™ brings in cold air from in front of the rad, if you pm me your email address I will send you a copy of the install instructions and you can see how the device works, Devildog has a vipair and he likes it alot and believes in the principals that make it work, which I do as well. We are presently making a special version that mates up perfectly to the Hennessseyy box that Devil has and then I am sure he will post some numbers for all to see as well.

Steve

 

[DEVILDOG]

Russ,
If you read the post I made w/PICS on the VIPAIR you will see where I clearly explain that the VIPAIR channels air from the front fascia ahead of the radiator and A/C and above the oil cooler. Also, please note that it has been stated on this thread that the front fascia air is also utilized for the Gen I and Gen III. Do you really believe DC is so stupid to channel air into the engine after it has been heated by the radiator, A/C and oil cooler and that Steve and Scott would also design a product that provides heated radiator, A/C and oil cooler air into the engine? Please take the time to reread this thread and my VIPAIR w/ PICS thread for a better understanding before you assume that I think heated radiator, A/C and oil cooler air is an improvement over NACA air.
Steve,
I will dyno at the next N. TEXAS VCA dyno day event so there are witnesses and post the VIPAIR results. Thanks for the special VIPAIR for my H. M. S. airbox.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Devildog,
Great, how about I fire you down a dozen or so for that dyno day and the club can get in a group buy. Let me know when it is and we can co-ordinate.
Steve

 

[DEVILDOG]

Steve,
I'm sure the Club would appreciate the opportunity for a group discount. Just make sure you send a couple "yellow" logoed ones for the really fast cars. Will advise.

 

[vipah]

I can give a great discount on the magic HP beans as well. Let me know how many the Club wants.

 

[Russ M]

Hmm,

Ok front of radiator is a different story. Would you guys just get a few more to a dyno please, I want to buy one if it works.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Now I know why CA is so messed up. vipah, when it comes to proper expenditures we don't need to hear from you. Go away and concentrate on your $38B budget deficit. Glad to hear on the news today that your auto taxes are tripling...couldn't happen to a more deserving, nursery story infatuated juvenile.

 

[vipah]

Now Devildufus we can cure a lot of budget problems by selling Texans the magic HP beans. LMAO

You are such an easy target. Thanks for being such a great straight man.

You amuse me. Like a clown. LOL

 

[luc]

I have a 69 Mustang Mach1 Cobra Jet "R" code and it is a well know fact that the "R" code is faster than the "Q" code(for those of you that don't know the "R" is the 428 with a "Shaker" hood that take cold outside air at WOT and the "Q" has a regular air cleaner/hood.

I also have/race a Roush Mustang T/A (chassis 021) that use OUTSIDE RAMMED COOLER AIR at the bottom of the windshield to feed the airbox.

This thread is too funny,some peoples will spend hundreds if not thousands of $ on "cosmetic" with absolutly no performance value and are bashing Steve for puttting out a product that is well made, affordable and with a potential for performance increase ( even if small).

Luc.
00GTS

 

[DEVILDOG]

Now Devildufus we can cure a lot of budget problems by selling Texans the magic HP beans. LMAO

You are such an easy target. Thanks for being such a great straight man.

You amuse me. Like a clown. LOL

D@mn right I'm a straight guy...and I'm guessing you're not. Who's the clown now?
LOL!

 

[Newport Viper]

Man, I am glad my Gen 1 had this form the start !!!!!!!!!

 

[vipah]

You are still the clown my friend. Nice try at being funny. Ask some of your fifth grade pals for some jokes when you have a chance. They probably have better material.

Hey Luc, my magic HP beans have potential for a performance increase. How many should I put you down for? LMAO Anyone who buys a performance improvement without proper proof of what it can do is a fool (like Deveildufus).