Have the discussions on the VCA site gone to hell?

[VIPER GTSR 91]

As a proud VCA member for many years now as most of you know, it seems lately that many of the replies to threads have really gone down hill. By this I mean there are numerous replies to honest and informative threads lately that end up diverting from the subject quickly (hi jacked) or attacks on peoples integrity. They seem to go on back and fourth a lot lately. It also seems to come a lot from newbies or enthusiasts too. Not to count them out as we all started out in the Viper excitement at sometime, but it gets really old and almost not worth it anymore to place a thread that is either informative or to gain positive information from other owners and have all the diverting remarks that have nothing to do with the original thread. Is this just me seeing this lately or do others that have been on here for awhile see the same thing? Thanks and remember to stay on subject for this one at least.

 

[LifeIsGood]

I haven't noticed this, but I have almost no interest in the GEN V threads, so I never open any of them. Is this where they are?

 

[Hostile]

This site was my favorite place to spend my internet time, information,facts,cool mods,short cuts
and answers to tech questions. Now most of the people and vendors that in the past gave help
answers and knew the facts and figures seem to have left the building why?
So now I no longer spend three or four trips here a day somtimes once a day or once a week.


Skeeter

 

[Allan]

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Why all the arguements and negative slamming back and forth?

 

[speedracervr4]

It also seems to come a lot from newbies or enthusiasts too. Not to count them out as we all started out in the Viper excitement at sometime, but it gets really old and almost not worth it anymore to place a thread that is either informative or to gain positive information from other owners and have all the diverting remarks that have nothing to do with the original thread.t.

I don't want this to turn into a back and forth thing, but honestly what was informative or positive about your earlier thread? http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/667178-Alignment-time-and-costs-for-Gen-V . If you got a quote, let everyone know! Instead telling everyone to call the dealer doesn't help any one. *** calling the kettle black?

I come on here for the technical information and to help others out and that's about it. The Gen V forum seems to turn into a S**t fest the fastest with people saying SRT should have done this or that or the car should have better technology for the price, Blah blah blah.

 

[SNKBYT]

Have to agree with Skeeter. There was a time when you posted a question,or were seeking some tech info, you good get a straight answer. Now at times,it seems that people seem to ad lib or offer their opinion rather than facts. Often their opinion is just that, not really a actual factual experience. When people ask a serious question and are looking for a correct technical answer, it would be very helpful and courteous if they got a straight answer. I have been a member for a long time. ( Purchased my first new viper in 94.) I do not have a lot of posts, but when I do, I try to offer the best factual information I can, based on my actual experience. Thus helping the person posting with actual tried and tested information. I understand, that there can be variables to many situations, but by offering past experiences rather than hearsay, it gives the poster a much better information in trying to help with their problem or to help reach a decision with a mod before purchasing. Don't get me wrong, there are many great members and vendors and supporters that spend a lot of their precious time helping people out. Its just sad when you have to wade through the BS to get the correct info you were posting about.

 

[All Blue ACR]

yes what Skeeter said

 

[dru282]

As a new member I can say that I was suprised by the same things you all described. At first I felt like this was a great place to talk about and find answers to the car we all love. I also thought it would be a place to organize some get togethers without the normal bullcrap asociated with car clubs I have known in the past. Its amazing to me how people are when they are not face to face. I can't imagine people saying some of these things in front of someone. Then again maybe not. I also earlier mentioned a suppliers name that I had a good dealing with and unbeknown to me his name is barred from this site. The messages I recieved really soured my thoughts of this whole club. Its ashame when you cannot mention a store without being chastised. I came in to talk cars and to further my knowledge of a great automobile. Its seems to unfortunately be like all other clubs I have known. I am sorry I went a little long here but as a new member I too have lessened my involvement for the same reasons earlier stated.

 

[johniew398]

I have been on the forum for five years and enjoy it to find answers about my Viper.

In that short time I notice what you are talking about. Someone posts a question because they couldn't find it using the search function or it is something new. Some of the posts then turn into attacks on people and arguments over which Generation Viper is better than the other. It must be the society we live in because I notice the same thing on some social media sites.

 

[Newport Viper]

Most of my posts are out of frustration because of SRT "moving" in a different direction with the Viper then ever before. (I'm sure others feel the same?)

I FEAR several things. I am a Pisces so bear with me..... I feel the FORCE.... LOL

I FEAR that SRT has really screwed up the launch and, burnt their most loyal customers.

I FEAR that SRT has targeted new customers that it can't get.

I FEAR that SRT has pushed the price point out of the niche market the Viper filled. ( The SRT now FEELS 2nd rate to the GTS.)

I FEAR/FEEL that SRT "Ralph" wants to push out the VCA.

I FEAR/FEEL that SRT "Ralph" wants us to sign up to their forums/facebook and club and leave the VCA behind.

I FEAR/FEEL for SRT to grow they have to push out everything (VCA) that is associated with the old "Dodge" to start anew.

I FEAR/FEEL that time will prove my statements true..... which hurts me. I LOVE THE VCA but, I'm not afraid to speak about what I feel. (face to face too)

In the end I FEEL that the Viper, at least how we know it up to this point, ( A Bad A$$ no nonsense street car) is DOOMED. (poor release in still crappy economy at a high price)

I HOPE everything I FEEL is completely way off base, however I have never been far off on my Pisces predictions and it makes me sad.

I want the Viper to be around forever!

This is why I have posted some Debbie Downer LOL posts and others have too..... Just an inherent frustration to change.




If you have an extra $100 in your pocket and like to know your future................. call me.......................... I'm waiting.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Paul Hawker]

Lots of people post for different reasons.
Some to vent anxiety for the unknown.
Some post to feel self important.
Some post to answer a question.
Some post to keep in the loop.
Some post to help another.
Some post to ask for help.

I remember when Remy used to post about his Meteorite Viper with a dolphin on the hood. It started as fun, then got serious, then got fun again.

These forums often have a life of their own. With new members it takes a while till they get with the culture, and find their niche.

Deep down most want the Viper, SRT, Dodge, Chrysler, and VCA to continue to thrive.

For the most part, Viper Owners are pretty type A. They are used to being in command and getting their own way. This can often lead to conflict, but it usually sorts itself out.

I do not believe that SRT can thrive without VCA. I also do not believe that VCA can thrive without SRT. This fact within itself will cause like minded individual to sort out any differences for the mutual benefit of each group.

Some of the individual regional clubs, also get a little full of themselves. They forget that this whole club is held together by a web with the VCA at the center. They do best when they work together. Sometimes the VCA can also get a little full of themselves, but reason soon prevails, and the club evolves forward.

Keep the faith guys. The Viper is the glue that stickes us all together. The forum is kind of the playground, and outlet for communication and self experssion.

Don't loose sight of the prize.

 

[Fatboy 18]

I love it here
Its a great place to meet new American friends, at Le mans this year I met David and Randall from the Ohio region. Without places like this that would not have happened. I also met John who is currently in Germany, same thing, this place made that possible.

I have to agree with some of the points in the above posts, I do not do Facebook and do not intend to! Its exactly the same on the Viper section of the Pistonheads website in the UK. There used to be a lot of members who posted there but now do not post as much due to Facebook.

We were all new once, and I have to say I would not be a Viper owner without the help of members on here. THANKYOU.

The Alley *****, LOTS of bad mouthed people and stupid comments, also myself being from the United Kingdom I do not always understand the Humor? I also got ripped buying some used parts from there

I find it sad now that certain vendors are no longer allowed to post on the site. Yes you knew they were a vendor and you could make your own mind up whether you wished to use them or not. I am grateful for the posts from Toddy (bad Boyz Garage), Mark and Bill at Woodhouse

I too do not like the fact that there seems to be a movement away from the VCA by SRT?

I try to be helpful as others are to me

I think these things move in circles, you get a few people who try the site, don't like it and move on.

Stick with it guys, i'm sure it will sort itself out But yes I too have noticed a slight slip of not so many people being around anymore

 

[PDCjonny]

The Gen 5 area has been taken over by some self absorbed noobs (generally) who post constantly in every thread, have become Viper experts by virtue of owning one for a month and seem to think they have bought La Ferrari's, not a Dodge. There used to be a feeling of camaraderie and respect on this forum across the Viper generations which is completely gone from that area.

 

[Bobpantax]

SRT targetted a new audience for the Gen V Viper. That audience is less gearhead oriented and more $ oriented. It also appears to be a bit younger which means, in general, with exceptions, more shallow and more likely to attempt to exercise anonymous power on the net. The days of the VCA being, for the most part, a group of people who could communicate about the Viper and occasionally make good hearted fun of each other are over. To me, the type of person that requires fancy stuff is, well, fancy. ( Yes. I stole that a little from Coogan's Bluff. LOL.)

 

[troublemaker]

I agree Bob, please see my signature. I place at least some of the blame on the Gen 4&5. With these cars being for the most part untunable, the gear head aspect of the car is being lost. Most buyers won't ever post technical threads on the new cars because for the most part the electronics on have neutered any chance of being able to actually work on it or for the greater part build anything more than slighter over stock. I keep wondering what the cam in cam motors are capable of if they were really uncorked. I have posted most of this before, but the new buyer of the new car cares more for $15,000 paint jobs and fluffy interior. My search for a car completely ruled out anything later than a Gen 3 because of the stupid computer. The new car is nice, but when having my wife's car serviced at Dodge we bumped into a Gen V. It was my wife's comment that she was disappointed in the new one that completely said it all. She is not a Viper freak like me, so she looked at it from a completely different perspective and fell in love with a SRT Challenger sitting in the showroom over the new Viper. I think all SRT needs to do is open the computer up to open up the market to a whole different breed of buyer that doesn't want to leave their car stock which for right now shy away from the car.

 

[Coloviper]

Everyone sees it and everyone bounces around the real issues:

1. Club is not the same as it was in the past. Values, and purpose are clearly different and you wonder why, just look at current structure focus and well just look up!

2. Car Gens are clearly very different, have their fans and detractors but $ difference is a lot of the issue. Sorry but someone who is justifying and purchasing a $150k car versus a new VCA member who saved up enough to pay $30k for a used Gen I are too totally different demography. Two totally different people with views on life.

3. Allowing the infiltration of brand killing trolls to run wild as it has left such a bad taste for anyone here and new to forum. That is a lot of it.

4. Young, middle age, old has nothing to do with it. There is no heart and soul left reappears to not be. Core of founding support has been shunned and walked out. No more Grailkeeper, no more Ralph close info and posts. Riffs appear to be there from outside looking in. Sorry but something has gone awry.......I have no clue what but it is different.

5. Just not as fun as the past and now more like the bs in other car clubs which is why I stayed away from car clubs in the past. Want to fix it, go back to the way the club functioned, the values and purpose it had.

Don't like to spend as much time here as in the past and I admit, I sometimes get negative in posts, but mainly to try to defend against the Trolls Gine Wild. All for open speech but talk about in appropriate directions with the other brand loving, viper bashing posts, etc.

Until the issues are dealt with head on and everything brought into the open, nothing will change. That is for anything in life. Go back in time see where it changed and why, then you will know how to correct it. People care but until the people get together to really discuss how it can be fixed, how can it be fixed?

 

[99 R/T 10]

Lots of people post for different reasons.
Some to vent anxiety for the unknown.
Some post to feel self important.
Some post to answer a question.
Some post to keep in the loop.
Some post to help another.
Some post to ask for help.

I remember when Remy used to post about his Meteorite Viper with a dolphin on the hood. It started as fun, then got serious, then got fun again.

These forums often have a life of their own. With new members it takes a while till they get with the culture, and find their niche.

Deep down most want the Viper, SRT, Dodge, Chrysler, and VCA to continue to thrive.

For the most part, Viper Owners are pretty type A. They are used to being in command and getting their own way. This can often lead to conflict, but it usually sorts itself out.

I do not believe that SRT can thrive without VCA. I also do not believe that VCA can thrive without SRT. This fact within itself will cause like minded individual to sort out any differences for the mutual benefit of each group.

Some of the individual regional clubs, also get a little full of themselves. They forget that this whole club is held together by a web with the VCA at the center. They do best when they work together. Sometimes the VCA can also get a little full of themselves, but reason soon prevails, and the club evolves forward.

Keep the faith guys. The Viper is the glue that stickes us all together. The forum is kind of the playground, and outlet for communication and self experssion.

Don't loose sight of the prize.

I agree with a couple of your first points Paul, but SRT or VCA longevity is not mutually exclusive on each other, but on support from individuals. Fiat has already moved to kill the Dodge name, SRT can't be far behind.

As for the regionals getting full of themselves, I see it the other way around. Excluding people/business from being on the site is stupid and exclusionary. Should not have happened and people wonder why so many supporters/people have left?! It is not the VCA or the website that keep them together, but those local individuals in the club that call or email each other to do things. Even VOI, most of the participants are not online.

 

[troublemaker]

Remember, there was a lot of temporary banning that became permanent of a lot of the knowledgable members on here. I won't mention names, but for those that have been around awhile, you know who I am talking about. Another key note is that a lot of long time members of the club are now only enthusiasts, I wonder why? I have had a lot of help come my way through this site, but as a club I don't feel that I have received anymore than any other car site, there are people helping others with there car issues on a lot of different sites. I think SRTs absence on here has been more than coincidental, that have strayed for a reason.

 

[Nine Ball]

I'll be the first to admit that I've done my share of feeding the trolls here. Sometimes this site needs a little spark of energy, it has been pretty boring for the last year or so. A lot of anxiety is built up from those of us that waited forever to get our Gen 5 orders. I do wish the negative naysayers about the Viper would take a hike, however. We have too many internet experts circulating here lately.

I do try and bring more technical stuff here, as it is severely lacking compared to the GM and Ford based sites. This is mostly a result of Viper owners that don't really work on their own cars, or track their cars. Just fewer of us out there doing so, by comparison to the other brands. I've searched this site for all kinds of tech info, most of the time with no result. So, when I learn something new, I try and make a post with pics so that future owners can search and find it.

Tony

 

[Smokin' 2]

OP....Yes.

Lots of interesting perspectives in this thread....

 

[ViperSmith]

I think this is all running rampent in the Gen V forum. But, lets be fair, there are less than a dozen people who own the cars on it. We have a few experts who have never even driven a Viper or sat in one telling us how much better Bugattis are.

There also seem to be plenty of people not in the market for the new Gen poo-pooing on the threads of those that own them giving feedback. Then of course there is a certain person who owns a Gen V defecating over the previous generations - causing a lot of strife.

In reality, there just aren't enough people with the Gen V registered in the Gen V forum yet to really get information rolling. I'll enjoy Jack's results from dragging.

Take my thread on "Hey join Twitter" - more than half the posts were from long time forum regulars saying how terrible of an idea it was. Yet, numerous members have reported they have gotten fantastic results leveraging it. So, post something useful and "old timers" jump down your throat because they don't like the suggestion, even though it works - even people posting in this very thread.

I'll gladly admit I don't know as much about the Viper as many do. But, I enjoy my Gen V, as much as others enjoy their Gen I-IV. They are all great cars, but the V is the car for me.

I enjoy going into the I/II - III/IV forums and contributing where I can in a positive manner. But it seems plenty like jumping into the V forum, causing trouble, then leaving. Strange dynamic. I think there are lots of valid criticisms for SRT, but if people could create threads complaining instead of dragging down positive threads, it may help the cause.

 

[Policy Limits]

at least some of the noobie's loved supercars enough to purchase the vehicle. I think a much bigger problem are the enthusiast (wanna be's?) that have never owned or have never even driven any generation viper. They are quite opinionated for some one with such zero history. I like the members only area of this forum because I think it weeds out these types. IMO the perfect solution to this dilemma would be to charge a fee to join the forum or to post and watch all the bust out know it all know nothings disappear like other cars do from our rear view mirror as we fly past them!!

Don't get me wrong, being an enthusiast is ok; we were all one at some point. but pretending to be something you're not or to be experienced in something you know nothing about is never cool. I respect all generations of the car and owners of all generations. I've wanted one since it came out two decades ago and I'm happy to finally have one. This forum is still overall a great resource. I'm no mechanic but I like learning about how things operate and function, about proper vehicle operation and maintenance and about the history, production and manufacture of these snakes.

Charging a fee to join the forum is a suggestion that I think will help and I'd be willing to pay it to avoid unnecessary drama and trolls.

 

[99 R/T 10]

at least some of the noobie's loved supercars enough to purchase the vehicle. I think a much bigger problem are the enthusiast (wanna be's?) that have never owned or have never even driven any generation viper. They are quite opinionated for some one with such zero history. I like the members only area of this forum because I think it weeds out these types. IMO the perfect solution to this dilemma would be to charge a fee to join the forum or to post and watch all the bust out know it all know nothings disappear like other cars do from our rear view mirror as we fly past them!!

Don't get me wrong, being an enthusiast is ok; we were all one at some point. but pretending to be something you're not or to be experienced in something you know nothing about is never cool. I respect all generations of the car and owners of all generations. I've wanted one since it came out two decades ago and I'm happy to finally have one. This forum is still overall a great resource. I'm no mechanic but I like learning about how things operate and function, about proper vehicle operation and maintenance and about the history, production and manufacture of these snakes.

Charging a fee to join the forum is a suggestion that I think will help and I'd be willing to pay it to avoid unnecessary drama and trolls.

Do you realize that most of the "enthusiast" are owners/multiple Viper owners, but simply decided not to renew VCA membership?

And great suggestion, charge a fee, watch how many very knowledgeable "enthusiast", with much of the tech. knowledge leave this place for good.

 

[Bugman Jeff]

Do you realize that most of the "enthusiast" are owners/multiple Viper owners, but simply decided not to renew VCA membership?

And great suggestion, charge a fee, watch how many very knowledgeable "enthusiast", with much of the tech. knowledge leave this place for good.

I fit in that category. I'm an owner that will probably never join the VCA, and would leave the forum if they started charging a subscription fee. While I'm new to the forum and wouldn't be missed if I left, I've got years of general wrenching and high dollar custom car building experience under my belt, and have tried to provide helpful and useful info. I'm also fantastic at typing run on sentences.

As far as the forum going to hell, I haven't been around long enough to notice, but I think it's not just us. I'm on a number of other forums, and there seems to be a general shift where the old guard is leaving and is being replaced by keyboard cowboys and internet tough guys who don't always think before they post. It is often(but not always) younger people who've been raised in the age of the internet that are the biggest offenders.

 

[redtanrt10]

Do you realize that most of the "enthusiast" are owners/multiple Viper owners, but simply decided not to renew VCA membership?

Good example of read more, post less, don't give your expert insights until you know a lot more. You, Jon, Nineball, Paul and others all make good points. I look at the Gen V threads as repetitive train wrecks, same gripes and misinformation over and over. In other forums seems like less help and more I'm smarter than you.. Hopefully the tides will turn

 

[ViperGTS]

Skeeter +1

 

[NI-KA]

Some of the concerns discussed and hinted at in this thread will only heal with time.

Other concerns expressed will require thoughtful discussion which this thread MIGHT help.

Disagreements in regards to how to approach problems and engage in change are persistent.

My opinion is that the best course is to have a lot of discussions since one person (or a limited group) very rarely have all the answers.
Sometimes it is not about the final outcome but the journey getting there with as many people as possible engaged and participating in the discussion and the journey.

 

[Policy Limits]

by "enthusiast" I was referring to non owners. I understand that word has a different meaning when registered here so perhaps I should've just said "non owners." They'd still be able to read others' posts to stay informed but would be precluded from posting troll style arguments, etc.

The fee was just a suggestion; not saying its the answer. If there's a better or alternative proposed solution other than the above posted, I would love to hear it....

 

[TrackAire]

I fit in that category. I'm an owner that will probably never join the VCA, and would leave the forum if they started charging a subscription fee. While I'm new to the forum and wouldn't be missed if I left, I've got years of general wrenching and high dollar custom car building experience under my belt, and have tried to provide helpful and useful info. I'm also fantastic at typing run on sentences.

As far as the forum going to hell, I haven't been around long enough to notice, but I think it's not just us. I'm on a number of other forums, and there seems to be a general shift where the old guard is leaving and is being replaced by keyboard cowboys and internet tough guys who don't always think before they post. It is often(but not always) younger people who've been raised in the age of the internet that are the biggest offenders.

You're right about other forums going to hell too....the problem is everything is getting too diluted. Too easy to leave here and go to forum X, Y, Z, etc. There is no loyalty, there is no vested interest to make this forum (or is it club?) better for the long term.

Personally I'd love to have a forum that required you to use your real name, contact info etc. That would get rid of all the BS quickly since most people have a completely different persona when on their key board versus face to face. We have a members area here where you obviously pay but for what I'm not sure anymore. If this forum was a true "club" where everybody had to pay and knew who everybody on the forum was, I'd think this place would really rock. Best way to **** out the "fluff" is charge more, make the yearly dues $200 to $250 per year (you don't have to be a Viper owner). The future of our success is exclusivity not the mediocrity that is so easily shared in todays internet world. Forums, Facebook, twitter, etc....it just gets more and more diluted with less and less real content.

I know of a lot of people with tons of tech help that are still on the forum but will not give their helpful input as they did in the past. Not being allowed to give out complete answers (by mentioning past members/vendors) to solve somebodies tech problem just is not worth the aggravation, possible scolding, etc. If I'm going to pay to be a member, I want to know who from the forum management is communicating with me or to others when posting. Sorry, "Forum Staff" does not cut it.

But, since I don't pay I find that I don't care really what the politics are anymore....actually, I find the forum less stressful and more enjoyable since I'm not a member but just an observer with no official ties, monetarily or by agreeing to the member terms. I can only hope that a forum (this one or another) can become available to meet a true gearheads requirements without the BS that's out there now.


Cheers,
George

 

[Policy Limits]

^^Great Suggestions^^

Thanks,

Rick