If A Paddle Shifting Transmission Was Available In 2009, Anyone Buying One?

[Warfang]

OPTION (op-shun)!

Those cost money. Selfish of you to make us pay for the R&D of crap we don't want. Buy a car that has it as an OPSHUN and kwitchurbitchin.

 

[xanadu]

Nah... selfish is when you think that your opinions are the only ones that matter, and that you're special enough to warrant a whole brand be changed for your beliefs. But then again, you must must not be selfish because you give us Viper owners so much of your time, considering you don't have one. You must be one awesome fella. You own your dream car and feel destined to make our car... your car.

I never thought of it that way. You're such the humanitarian.

btw... can you PROVE that driving was THAT bad? I don't think so. I'd be willing to bet those people don't think their driving was bad. But I'm sure if it ever happened to you, you're humble enough to admit you're a bad driver.

Selfish is when you want something ONLY your way, and are not willing to let someone else have something their way TOO (as an op-shun)! It's not about wanting to change the Viper into something else - the Viper with optional sequential manual paddle shift and optional/defeatable traction control is still a Viper along side the one with the old school manual clutch pedal and stick shift.

I think you need to learn the definition of selfishness better. One who was unselfish would be one who wanted to see more people happy, not keeping things only for themselves to be happy.

Sadly, often times the drive of selfish people will destroy everything for everyone, leaving nothing left for ANYONE to enjoy! Take that as a hint!

 

[Warfang]

PS are different but that's why they have options that YOU pay for.

No concept of the R&D and manufacturing process. The cost gets passed down to the whole line. To add as an OPSHUN cost more, but the base cost has been passed down to every unit sold. The R&D will also incur an opportunity cost for engineers who could have been working on more important things... like finding ways to lighten the car and of course, add more power.

Either way, the whiners are selfish... and some of them can only count to 3. This is a 10 digit world, people. You gotta keep up with the times.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Most of those havent been because of TC failing, the driving is just THAT bad, be it drunk or snow/rain etc. Which is why TC is needed, there are too mant people that cant handle as much power as they think. Stop being selfish.

Maybe you didn't read my earlier post of a Lambo driver spinning at Sebring and then saying "I didn't think it would do that." He thought that because the Lambo had TC. How many other drivers have/will do the same thing? Answer: lots.

And how is it I am the one being selfish? The Viper is the only car on the market that fits my wants. You nannie-tech guys have every other make and model to choose from, I have only one and you want to change it to fit your agenda. But somehow that makes ME selfish. That's perplexing.

 

[Warfang]

Selfish is when you want something ONLY your way, and are not willing to let someone else have something their way TOO

Sounds like you and the whiners. (btw- "Xanadu and the Whiners" would make an awesome band name). You CAN have things you way. Buy a Vette. Ask Chuck, he drove one the other day. It's quite nice, even with all the nannytech.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I cant describe how rediculous that sounds. You dont want the car to change because of a stigma, I want the car to change because it may save people's lives (or cars, for which some is one in the same), yet I'm being selfish??

Seatbelts and crush zones save lives. TC may reduce accidents (although the evidence regarding sports cars proves otherwise), but it wont contribute to much if any life saving. If you're going fast enough to kill yourself a seatbelt is your only friend.

But since you're such the unselfish humanitarian and really want to limit everyone's freedom by forcing all to comply let's just limit the amount of HP to 200 for all cars. That'll do more to save lives than TC ever will.

 

[bluestreak]

Maybe you didn't read my earlier post of a Lambo driver spinning at Sebring and then saying "I didn't think it would do that." He thought that because the Lambo had TC. How many other drivers have/will do the same thing? Answer: lots.

And how is it I am the one being selfish? The Viper is the only car on the market that fits my wants. You nannie-tech guys have every other make and model to choose from, I have only one and you want to change it to fit your agenda. But somehow that makes ME selfish. That's perplexing.

LOL, I have spun a car with TC on. The guy was at the track, obviously testing the limits of the car, and expected the car to protect him from wadding it up?? That's rediculous. The car you have, is a old car, and if it's an OPTION you could choose if you wanted it on the car or not, but it has to be all or nothing for you huh?

No concept of the R&D and manufacturing process. The cost gets passed down to the whole line. To add as an OPSHUN cost more, but the base cost has been passed down to every unit sold. The R&D will also incur an opportunity cost for engineers who could have been working on more important things... like finding ways to lighten the car and of course, add more power.

Either way, the whiners are selfish... and some of them can only count to 3. This is a 10 digit world, people. You gotta keep up with the times.

This is TC, not rocket science, DC has TC on many a car, it wouldnt take much to get one on the Viper, you are trying to hard and proving nothing. It took much more to develope that motor than it would TC, and they did it and selling for less. Try Again.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Selfish is when you want something ONLY your way, and are not willing to let someone else have something their way TOO (as an op-shun)! It's not about wanting to change the Viper into something else - the Viper with optional sequential manual paddle shift and optional/defeatable traction control is still a Viper along side the one with the old school manual clutch pedal and stick shift.

I think you need to learn the definition of selfishness better. One who was unselfish would be one who wanted to see more people happy, not keeping things only for themselves to be happy.

Sadly, often times the drive of selfish people will destroy everything for everyone, leaving nothing left for ANYONE to enjoy! Take that as a hint!

"op-shuns" will add to the cost of the vehicle for all purchases and will contribute to the demise of the "made for one purpose" attitude of the Viper. And selfish is when you have so many sports cars to choose from that fit your needs but still want to change the last remaining pure sports car built.

You are welcome to convert your Viper to an automatic. It has been done. In fact, there's currently one for sale.

You are also welcome to purchase a TC system from Woodhouse. Woodhouse does excellent work, is reasonably priced, very experienced.

Nobody will fault you for either. Although they might wonder why you bought a Viper in the first place.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

it has to be all or nothing for you huh?

Congrats. You're finally getting it.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

We are talking about RACE INSPIRED ENHANCEMENTS AS AN OPTION ONLY!!!

That race inspired enhancement is going to be removed from F1 next year. Incidently, the same as ABS was removed from F1 ten years ago.

I guess F1 realized some of that nanny-tech crap wasn't as much fun as they originally thought. Write Bernie and tell him how wrong he is.

 

[bluestreak]

That race inspired enhancement is going to be removed from F1 next year. Incidently, the same as ABS was removed from F1 ten years ago.

I guess F1 realized some of that nanny-tech crap wasn't as much fun as they originally thought. Write Bernie and tell him how wrong he is.

This is F1, not suzie and dave who bought two vipers and no HPDE experience, and they have had TC because even those pro guys were killing themselves, it was implemented for a reason.

 

[xanadu]

The pro-PS crowd here just doesn't get it. Stop drinking the koolaid.

Everything costs money. Nothing is free.

Guess you didn't know that Chrysler / Getrag has already begun to produce twin-clutch sequentials that have been very highly regarded? Stop with the "ohhh, it costs toooooo much" whine. From McLaren (who built the new 600 hp engine - in case you didn't know) to Mercedes to Chrysler to Getrag, there is plenty of development already in the sequential gearbox!

We're lucky to have this 600HP monster . . .

You mean that one built by McLaren? The superior F1 company that has been using sequential gearboxes and TC in their cars for many years now??? Hmmm, I wonder if it's the SAME company!

You guys would kill it -- I mean KILL it -- by adding all of this expensive tech-oriented options.

Whatever. You have less proof that it would be of any really major cost for such options than I have for it NOT being that major of a cost! The transmission needed for high torque capability is IN PRODUCTION NOW! Between all of what McLaren knows in sequential gearboxes and Mercedes too, not to mention Chrysler already with the ME 4-12 - nah, I think you are only HOPING it would be super expensive because you are selfish in your own desires!

Any money to be invested can be better invested to make the Viper better in other ways (that would also make a bigger difference in selling more cars, which PS would not).

Rediculous!!! What are you hoping for next - 1,000 hp? At what point is hp going to be absurd and no longer sellable because people realize it's just not controlable on the streets? So maybe you want Dodge to use TECHNOLOGY to build aluminum frames and titanium engines and carbon fiber panels, but keep it "cost effective" for the company too - all at an affordable price for the buying consumer too? No way - Chevy dumped a ton into the Z06 and most likely lost money on that line alone (but made up for the loss through standard Vette sales)!

Dodge could NOT find a better way to market and sell more Vipers than to add defeatable TC and the option of a sequential manual paddle shifted gearbox - especially since the gearbox needed is likely already being produced! I would bet all that would be needed is a little tweaking of the electronics to give a super-fast (< 50 milliseconds) shift between gears, which would be expected for a (currently competitive with exotics) sports car / super car setting. And if you even start to say, "Well, the Viper isn't an exotic and you should not compare it to exotics or expect it . . . .", I'll say you're full of ca-ca! No Viper owner could honestly say that they don't want to see their limited/low production Viper as being right along side any sports car - exotic or not!

Oh, and again, I will say that the sales of new Ferrari's are over 90% (80% plus for the F430 and 90% plus for the 599 GTB, 612 Scaglietti, orders for the F430 Scuderia and of course all of the old Enzo's) F1 sequential manual paddle shifting gearboxes! But Ferrari is nice enough to offer a full manual stick / clutch pedal for those (less than 10%) who desire that. I can imagine what the sales would be for Dodge and the Viper - and I bet it would be at least a 50-50 split for the first couple of years - before moving towards the sequential as the better selling version!

As for buying Ferrari - I cannot afford it, and even if I could, I wouldn't for personal reasons.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

and they have had TC because even those pro guys were killing themselves, it was implemented for a reason.

No, they had TC (and all that other nanny-tech crap) is because F1 has always been about the car. When they started to realize nanny-tech is boring they moved towards outlawing it, beginning with ABS. And guess what, there has been no appreciable difference in F1 fatalities since. Imagine that.

They outlawed turbos because the pro guys were dying (see: Ayrton Senna). Guess we should outlaw turbos on street cars too since Suzie and Dave aren't pros.

 

[Vipermann]

For perspective, here is my wish list of improvements to the Viper before Dodge spends even one second thinking about PS (feel free to add to this list).

... these improvements will make the Viper even more desirable to 'most,' paddle shifters will not:

>3.33, or similar, rear gears
>higher engine redline 6,600+
>carbon fiber hood and trunk (reduced weight)
>lower drag cd for front nose design (higher top speed and better fuel economy)
>better interior materials - less plastic
>2-pc brake rotors
>race-looking seat belts
>cruise control (for the long drive to VOI-10)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

For perspective, here is my wish list of improvements to the Viper before Dodge spends even one second thinking about PS (feel free to add to this list).

... these improvements will make the Viper even more desirable to 'most,' paddle shifters will not:

>3.33, or similar, rear gears
>higher engine redline 6,600+
>carbon fiber hood and trunk (reduced weight)
>lower drag cd for front nose design (higher top speed and better fuel economy)
>better interior materials - less plastic
>2-pc brake rotors
>race-looking seat belts
>cruise control (for the long drive to VOI-10)

I'll take the 2-piece rotors. You can have the rest.

I suppose lighter would be near the top of my list.

 

[xanadu]

HAHAHHA.... these are the same people that when the Viper hands them their @$$ on a platter, they demand more restrictions on the Viper. This is followed by cursing to the effect that they can't believe some AMURICAN neanderthal retro backwards no finess car that just has a big engine cleaned their clock.

Can you back this up with documentation please? I would like to see documentation of this for no later than 3 to 4 years back.

I remember reading something about when PMUM was kicking serious @$$, all they can do was accuse him of cheating.

Can you back this up with documentation please?

Fact is, when you have a more basic car, it requires you to be a better driver.

No kidding? I don't think anyone at all is arguing that fact - so chill! I'm never going to be a great driver, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't want to own a Viper with options that will allow me to enjoy it more fully for my ability (applies to TC). As for sequential manual gearboxes, I simply want the ability to shift the gears myself, while also not dealing with a clutch pedal any longer. If sequential gearboxes were not RACE INSPIRED to begin with, I might be against it even - but it IS race inspired!

I see it like this - If I'm out on a road race track and I have a Viper with a super-fast sequential gearbox and paddle shifters which allow me to shift gears and keep both hands on the steering wheel at all times, and having this option (which allows me to drive better and faster than I could with a full stick/clutch pedal manual), along with perhaps TC and better yet - E- Diff, allows me to beat anyone else who does NOT have these options but is a WAAAAAAAY better a driver than I am . . . . . I would care less that I was the lesser skilled/talented driver, because the bottom line is - I WON!

This is how and why the Viper has a bad@$$ reputation. The whiners will never get that. They want the reputation without the work involved.

It means more, when you DO more... with less. Got it?

The Viper's "bad" reputation really has much to do with the mind set of the individual owner who has a inner complex with his masculinity, but I will step over to your understanding of the current Viper. However, I will say that a Viper offered with defeatable TC, E-Diff and a paddle shifted sequential manual gearbox (which is not nanny tech) would not hurt the Viper's reputation (and undoubtable make it even faster on a road race track) as long as there was the OPTION of the old stick and clutch pedal model to purchase. You could have your masculinizing full manual and turn off your TC and maybe it will be enough to throw away the ******.

The rest of us - secure in ourselves - will opt for what is vastly more commonly seen in road racing environments, and I for one would love it and be as proud as anyone else!

 

[xanadu]

DC just completely redid the motor . . . . and is selling the car FOR LESS!!!!!!!! Um, I think they can add TC and do the same. PS are different but that's why they have options that YOU pay for.

I agree with everything you've said (I think) Bluestreak. But just to clarify (to the best of my understanding) - McLaren, not DC, did the motor changes - which proves that things can be outsourced for cost savings.

As for the option of sequenial gearbox - the cost would be passed along to the buyer opting for that, not the buyer choosing the standard manual. You would not see a one price Viper for both options, but instead perhaps see a $6,000 or maybe $8,000 added charge for the sequential gearbox. It's the buyers choice for which option and which price he/she wants to pay.

Again, for everything that the opponent "purists" want to argue as to why it's not a good idea for DC, the proponents have shown why it IS a great idea!

Honestly, I think the opponents are shaking in their boots and hoping that DC isn't reading - which we know they are!

Hey DC:
1) Twin-clutch sequential using steering wheel mounted shifters (as optional).
2) Defeatable TC system
3) E- Diff such as Ferrari's system

 

[bluestreak]

Yes I understand that McClaren did it, but I doubt DC got that for free, including R&D. Of which part of that DC had to do themselves with it in the car.

 

[xanadu]

There's reward in taming this wild beast. Some people prefer to ride on fast, calm, sedate thoroughbreds, and that's ok. Just don't ride in on "My Little Pony" and tell me it's the Black Stallion. I know the difference... do you?

I would care less about comparing YOUR HORSE with MY HORSE - sounds a bit like "little boy games" doesn't it?

You guys have such neanderthal thinking - "my club is bigger than yours, my dog is nastier, my car is meaner, I can *** farther than you, my shifting method is more manly", what a joke it is to read what you think! Sounds like the old timer Harley guys before they began to accept Japanese cruisers as "enjoyable bikes ridden by guys who like bikes." Half the guys on *** cruisers were Harley guys beforehand. Toughness wears off once you find your own masculinity.

Dude, if DC had a Viper with an optional sequential manual gearbox and TC and E-Diff, I would say I had a Viper. If you pointed out to me that yours was BIGGER, more MANLY, or whatever, I would say, "ehh, okay, I bought with the options I WANTED, and I'm happy and secure and enjoying what I wanted and if we can't be loyal to the Viper as a whole brand, well, Buzz off!"

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I would care less that I was the lesser skilled/talented driver, because the bottom line is - I WON!

That explains a lot.

So why do you own a Viper instead of a Z06? It's a fair question. Or do you own a Viper?

 

[xanadu]

No, they had TC (and all that other nanny-tech crap) is because F1 has always been about the car. When they started to realize nanny-tech is boring they moved towards outlawing it, beginning with ABS. And guess what, there has been no appreciable difference in F1 fatalities since. Imagine that.

They outlawed turbos because the pro guys were dying (see: Ayrton Senna). Guess we should outlaw turbos on street cars too since Suzie and Dave aren't pros.

Changes in F1 are being made to make the less budgeted teams (hopefully) more competitive. It was the same reason why the switch from slicks to grooved tires and raising the ride height. Slowing down the cars to make for better competition between teams has been the major issue, but it still has not worked.

 

[xanadu]

For perspective, here is my wish list of improvements to the Viper before Dodge spends even one second thinking about PS (feel free to add to this list).

... these improvements will make the Viper even more desirable to 'most,' paddle shifters will not:

>3.33, or similar, rear gears
>higher engine redline 6,600+
>carbon fiber hood and trunk (reduced weight)
>lower drag cd for front nose design (higher top speed and better fuel economy)
>better interior materials - less plastic
>2-pc brake rotors
>race-looking seat belts
>cruise control (for the long drive to VOI-10)

Very interesting Vipermann -

Gears can be changed NOW as an aftermarket product
carbon fiber hood and trunk can be changed NOW as an aftermarket product
better interior materials can be changed NOW as an aftermarket product
2-pc brake rotors can be changed NOW as an aftermarket product
race-looking seat belts can be changed NOW as an aftermarket product
cruise control can be changed NOW as an aftermarket product

So 6 out of 8 that you listed can be changed RIGHT NOW with aftermarket parts, but things that cannot be changed with aftermarket parts are not worthy of a consideration first - hmmm!

Funny how "race looking seat belts" is of more importance than race inspired gearboxes and shifting options. How pathetic.

 

[xanadu]

Yes I understand that McClaren did it, but I doubt DC got that for free, including R&D. Of which part of that DC had to do themselves with it in the car.

Gottcha!!!

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Well this is an entertaining post.

There's quite a bit of torque and rotating inertia with a Viper V10, the rpm doesn't fluctuate / respond as quick as a much smaller V10 or 12 in a Lambo or Ferrari, or a smaller V8 in a Corvette, which is needed for a quick paddle shift system. The torque curve on our V10s is like a diesel, unlike any other gas motor out there. Quick paddle shift systems automatically reduces engine rpm to match rev the trans. A Viper with a paddle shift system wouldn't shift as quick as a smaller engine, and more important to reduce rpm because of the high torque at low rpm.

Sure, in the race world paddle shift systems are the way to go, but they're not spinning a truck sized engine, their motors can blip up and down in rpm rather quick. A F1 engine can probably blip the engine to 10,000 rpm and back down to 1000 rpm in a second, whereas our big V10 would take more than twice as long to go and come back down from 6000 rpm. So when you hit the paddle on a Viper, there surely would be more of a delay in the shift.

One thing that would make me nervous about a paddle shift system in a Viper is downshifting, you hit the paddle one too many times, the rear tires would lock up trying to rotate the big V10. I've smoked my rear tires downshifting going in to a corner, but it's easy to quickly back off with the clutch pedal.

So.. personally I don't think there would be a significant advantage with a paddle shift system on a Viper regarding shift speed, it all depends on the drivers' shifting skills. Surely has it's advantages otherwise, not having to take a hand off the wheel, etc..

Soccer moms can opt for a paddle shift in a SUV nowadays.. what do I know eh'

 

[xanadu]

Well this is an entertaining post.

There's quite a bit of torque and rotating inertia with a Viper V10, the rpm doesn't fluctuate / respond as quick as a much smaller V10 or 12 in a Lambo or Ferrari, or a smaller V8 in a Corvette, which is needed for a quick paddle shift system. The torque curve on our V10s is like a diesel, unlike any other gas motor out there. Quick paddle shift systems automatically reduces engine rpm to match rev the trans. A Viper with a paddle shift system wouldn't shift as quick as a smaller engine, and more important to reduce rpm because of the high torque at low rpm.

Sure, in the race world paddle shift systems are the way to go, but they're not spinning a truck sized engine, their motors can blip up and down in rpm rather quick. A F1 engine can probably blip the engine to 10,000 rpm and back down to 1000 rpm in a second, whereas our big V10 would take more than twice as long to go and come back down from 6000 rpm. So when you hit the paddle on a Viper, there surely would be more of a delay in the shift.

One thing that would make me nervous about a paddle shift system in a Viper is downshifting, you hit the paddle one too many times, the rear tires would lock up trying to rotate the big V10. I've smoked my rear tires downshifting going in to a corner, but it's easy to quickly back off with the clutch pedal.

So.. personally I don't think there would be a significant advantage with a paddle shift system on a Viper regarding shift speed, it all depends on the drivers' shifting skills. Surely has it's advantages otherwise, not having to take a hand off the wheel, etc..

Soccer moms can opt for a paddle shift in a SUV nowadays.. what do I know eh'

Okay, once again I will defer back to the article I've posted here (#92) about the sequential dual-clutch transmission which has already started production. It was designed by Chrysler in conjuction with Getrag.

Here's is PARTIALLY what it says:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Chrysler Dual-Clutch Transmissions: Automatic Manuals - 79REM & 62TEM




Chrysler designed an automatically operated manual transmission, reportedly was for trucks and minivans; these have been tried before - Mercedes, for example, had a troublesome system in the past - but never successfully applied to light-duty vehicles, and never with the degree of sophistication and cleverness being applied by Chrysler engineers. This transmission, whose development started around 1998, is now confirmed for production. The company wrote:

A new automated manual (dual-clutch) transmission – developed in partnership with Getrag [based on many Chrysler patents] – will be used in significant volumes in 2010 model-year vehicles. The transmission is expected to deliver a fuel economy improvement of up to six percent, based on preliminary testing.​

The new transmission is equipped with two independent lay-shaft style gear sets with separate clutches, using manual transmission-based components. During shifts, the next gear is anticipated and pre-selected. Then one clutch is opened while the other is closed, allowing shifting without torque interruption. The result is quicker acceleration and refined shift quality. ​

Unlike Toyota's sequential automatic and most other clutchless models, it had systems to avoid slipping at traffic lights (on hills), to make getting into gear very, very fast, and to make extremely fast, smooth shifts. Unconfirmed reports said it was set to go into Rams when Stuttgart objected to the cost and temporarily ended the project. The transmission will be made in a joint venture with Chrysler's traditional German partner, Getrag, to reduce up-front production costs and to make use of Getrag’s dual-clutch patents.

This is a very exciting system - think of cutting 1-2 seconds off each car's 0-60 times while raising gas mileage, and making the car more pleasant to drive.

Large parts of the dual-clutch system (as it will be referred to in most reports) are used by the Chrysler ME-412, and may show up in Mercedes supercars as well.
The 62TEM (front-wheel drive transverse electromechanical transmission) will reportedly have one overdrive with 500 Nm (370 pound-feet) maximum input torque, 10,000 lbs GVW, 210,000 miles durability, using an integrated final drive and differential.

The dual-clutch will be a major advantage for Dodge trucks and minivans, especially given that many see the Chrysler automatics as being “a reason not to buy;” some speculate that the Cummins turbodiesels are being held back in power to avoid transmission damage, costly to Dodge’s image during a truck power war. At the moment, it appears that Chrysler is giving preference to front wheel drive vehicles, and is building the 62TEM first. The 79REM, for trucks, has been developed, but may be released after the 62TEM; no announcements have been made but this does not mean that the company is not working on it.

Automatically shifted manual transmission: some Chrysler dual-clutch automatic patents

A June 4, 2000 patent with inventor Donald L. Carriere was granted for "an electro-mechanical automatic transmission having... a first input shaft and a second input shaft concentric with the first input shaft....with a pair of electro-mechanical clutch actuators for selectively disengaging dual clutches... as well as an electro-mechanical shift actuator system which operatively engage the synchronizer devices for selectively engaging the drive gears. ... The dual clutch system of the present invention includes two dry discs driven by a common flywheel assembly. Two electro-mechanical clutch actuators are provided to control disengagement of the two-clutch discs independently. Shifts are accomplished by engaging the desired gear prior to a shift event and subsequently engaging the corresponding clutch. ...The transmission of the present invention can be in two different gear ratios at once, but only one clutch will be engaged and transmitting power. To shift to the new gear ratio, the driving clutch will be released and the released clutch will be engaged. The two-clutch actuators perform a quick and smooth shift as directed by an on-board vehicle control system using closed-loop control reading engine RPMs or torque. The transmission shaft that is disengaged will then be shifted into the next gear ratio in anticipation of the next shift." Clever!

October 15, 2002: control of a dual clutch (manual) transmission, where the first clutch acts to transmit torque to the first driven gear, and the second clutch transmits torque to the second driven gear. Richard G. Reed, Jr.; Jeffrey P. Cherry. The goal is to make a far smoother manual transmission, while increasing efficiency and power transmission, without excessive heat buildup. But could this also be a step in creating an automatically operated manual transmission.

Additional notes

Designed and engineered the 79REM (rear-wheel drive electromechanical transmission) seven speed, with two overdrive for 850 Nm diesel input torque, 26,000 lbs GVW with 120 mm centerdistance and 300,000 miles durability, input constant design.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

From that above article, my calculations would put the maximum torque at 626.96 lb. ft.

Also, you can see the reference to its use with the Cummins Turbo-diesel as well as the very end another mention of "diesel" torque.


Next.

 

[xanadu]

That explains a lot.

So why do you own a Viper instead of a Z06? It's a fair question. Or do you own a Viper?

Vette's are cookie cutter cars made with plastic bodies. The Z06 is very impressive, but it looks too much like the common Vette that is seen passing by on every street each 2 or 3 minutes.

The Viper is a low production run and therefore not so "dime a dozen".

 

[Warfang]

LOL, I have spun a car with TC on. The guy was at the track, obviously testing the limits of the car, and expected the car to protect him from wadding it up?? That's rediculous. The car you have, is a old car, and if it's an OPTION you could choose if you wanted it on the car or not, but it has to be all or nothing for you huh?




This is TC, not rocket science, DC has TC on many a car, it wouldnt take much to get one on the Viper, you are trying to hard and proving nothing. It took much more to develope that motor than it would TC, and they did it and selling for less. Try Again.

Of course it takes more to develop the motor. THATS WHERE WE WANT THE EFFORT TO GO TO. duh.

I don't want a tc system off a minivan on a Viper. Would you? Even if it's just a retrofit, it needs to be tested over and over again before the results are acceptable. Not worth the time for a limited production car. Not worth my money. Buy your own tc, pay to have it installed and pay to have it tested. Leave my checkbook out of it.

 

[Warfang]

Vette's are cookie cutter cars made with plastic bodies. The Z06 is very impressive, but it looks too much like the common Vette that is seen passing by on every street each 2 or 3 minutes.

The Viper is a low production run and therefore not so "dime a dozen".

If it has all the gizmos, then it becomes a cookie cutter car. Every car has gismos and tc. duh.

If you just want the look of a viper, go buy some body panels for a vette that makes it look like a Viper. That seems to be all you care about.

 

[Warfang]

I would care less about comparing YOUR HORSE with MY HORSE - sounds a bit like "little boy games" doesn't it?

You guys have such neanderthal thinking - "my club is bigger than yours, my dog is nastier, my car is meaner, I can *** farther than you, my shifting method is more manly", what a joke it is to read what you think! Sounds like the old timer Harley guys before they began to accept Japanese cruisers as "enjoyable bikes ridden by guys who like bikes." Half the guys on *** cruisers were Harley guys beforehand. Toughness wears off once you find your own masculinity.

Dude, if DC had a Viper with an optional sequential manual gearbox and TC and E-Diff, I would say I had a Viper. If you pointed out to me that yours was BIGGER, more MANLY, or whatever, I would say, "ehh, okay, I bought with the options I WANTED, and I'm happy and secure and enjoying what I wanted and if we can't be loyal to the Viper as a whole brand, well, Buzz off!"

See.. that's the difference. I don't care to tell people what car I have. I just look forward to improving my driving skills. I'm sure people just sort of glaze over when you tell them you have a porsche, so now you want a Viper now because people get wide-eyed when you say Viper. But you realize that you can't handle such a raw car, so you go whining and ******** about it here hoping you can change the mind of a billion dollar corporation.

Sad really.

The destination is arbitrary. The journey is where the fun is.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Changes in F1 are being made to make the less budgeted teams (hopefully) more competitive. It was the same reason why the switch from slicks to grooved tires and raising the ride height. Slowing down the cars to make for better competition between teams has been the major issue, but it still has not worked.

Eliminating ABS, TC and adding grooved tires so the 200-million-dollar teams can compete with the 600-million-dollar teams? LOL C'mon, you can't seriously believe that.

Besides, as we all know "op-shuns" like that aren't expensive.