Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

[aries]

Frankly, gotta stand up for my man Winkler , since so little really know about this guy. Given alot of time away from Chrysler, Chris could quite likely lock horns with Randy. Though not a professional , Chris is a National Champion SCCA pilot and is a quiet guy who like Eric Heuschele ( another SCCA National Champ who drove the Gen V over 200 on a very questionable track ) , is very , very well respected by his fellow Engineers at SRT. Salty driver, and likely every bit as fast if not faster in a Viper than Mr. Pobst. One has to wonder a bit if the fact that the new Snake was geared toward ride and safety in varying weather conditions if the new Corsa is even a relatively similar tire to the new PSC. Those in the know are quite aware the new PSC is faster than the old tire and has about 1/2 the tread life. As one selling the new car, the Vipers choice to build an aggressive tire, but to consider some safety features as a better ability to shed water, one has to wonder if that call also slowed down the Snake a bit. Overall a good compromise from all the concerns many had with the ACR and it's weather constrained driveability. Realize many never drive them in the rain, but in many States there is no choice.

"Likely"???? Try, definatley, all evidence points to Chris's faster lap time.

 

[Vypr Phil]

Randy Pobst is a Volvo driver...'nuff said!

Although I am disappointed, let's remember that the ZR1 is at the end of its life cycle and development curve whereas the Gen V is just starting out.

With C7's coming out soon, I hope SRT sees this as a wake-up call; ultra-expensive paint option and premium leather interiors do not add to the performance envelope, only the price.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Agree, Aries, I was trying to be polite. Have run against Chris in a couple of venues and he is a fierce competitor. One of those quiet guys that goes from Dr. Jeykll to Mr. Hide when in car-- as in runs off and hides, ha. Winkler does not talk alot , but he proves himself on the track and winning is his focus. Have a picture he autographed for me of his run at Laguna, and it holds an honored place in my home -- the dude is one fast asp driver!!

 

[DMan]

Just picked up in the tweets that this GTS didn't have the track pack?? I didn't notice that before. Can anyone explain that?? No aero, no track pack .. brakes were an issue and stability an issue, they have track improvements for each of those but don't send a car with those basic options?? I swear SRT is missing the mark, guys, like they wanted a GTS for it's fancy interior, for all the good that did, versus sending an SRT with the packages that make better track perf. C'mon guys, it's S RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR T, the R is what they were testing & you sent the pretty sister instead of the Tom-boy. I just went from a little disappointed to annoyed.

I am reading that right, right? (facepalm)

 

[Kratos]

Just picked up in the tweets that this GTS didn't have the track pack?? I didn't notice that before. Can anyone explain that?? No aero, no track pack .. brakes were an issue and stability an issue, they have track improvements for each of those but don't send a car with those basic options?? I swear SRT is missing the mark, guys, like they wanted a GTS for it's fancy interior, for all the good that did, versus sending an SRT with the packages that make better track perf. C'mon guys, it's S RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR T, the R is what they were testing & you sent the pretty sister instead of the Tom-boy. I just went from a little disappointed to annoyed.

I am reading that right, right? (facepalm)

Yep, you're reading it right.

 

[v10enomous]

Just trying to fly under the corporate internal F car radar

Just picked up in the tweets that this GTS didn't have the track pack?? I didn't notice that before. Can anyone explain that?? No aero, no track pack .. brakes were an issue and stability an issue, they have track improvements for each of those but don't send a car with those basic options?? I swear SRT is missing the mark, guys, like they wanted a GTS for it's fancy interior, for all the good that did, versus sending an SRT with the packages that make better track perf. C'mon guys, it's S RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR T, the R is what they were testing & you sent the pretty sister instead of the Tom-boy. I just went from a little disappointed to annoyed.

I am reading that right, right? (facepalm)

 

[elanderholm]

I might as well join in on the twitter fight.

 

[SnakeBitten]

[SUB][/SUB]Those looked like track pack rims to me. Also isn't the track pack brakes 14"ers? That's what is listed by the MT specs. This seems to BE the track pack GTS. STT did say the track packed GTS was faster than the track packed SRT model due to the GTS suspension IIRC. This is the best setup GTS but it doesn't have the aero package though. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

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Had the track pack wheels and the P Zero Corsas. I don't know about the brakes.

 

[Lespauldude]

Just picked up in the tweets that this GTS didn't have the track pack?? I didn't notice that before. Can anyone explain that?? No aero, no track pack .. brakes were an issue and stability an issue, they have track improvements for each of those but don't send a car with those basic options?? I swear SRT is missing the mark, guys, like they wanted a GTS for it's fancy interior, for all the good that did, versus sending an SRT with the packages that make better track perf. C'mon guys, it's S RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR T, the R is what they were testing & you sent the pretty sister instead of the Tom-boy. I just went from a little disappointed to annoyed.

I am reading that right, right? (facepalm)

One palm just doesn't seem like enough for this.......................

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[SnakeBitten]

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Had the track pack wheels and the P Zero Corsas. I don't know about the brakes.

I can't imagine this GTS has track pack wheels without the upgraded rotors. As much as I'm getting at SRT for this I would never believe they would send anything less than a GTS with track pack. It just is not enough against a car equipped with CCB's and better rubber. That is the part I don't understand.

According to Ralph's tweets there was no 2 sec gap between the ZR1 and and the GTS when they did testing. He said they had a ZR1 around for testing for 2 years. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the way this ZR1 is configured VERY RECENT? If so the ZR1 SRT used for benchmarking didn't use these tires nor had the aero. So this could explain why Ralph and company are shocked at the outcome.

It still bothers me that you would make your new car as fast as the competitions old car. That's a very puzzling move IMHO.

 

[stingray23]

One thing everyone keeps neglecting. Dont you think SRT would send them a production ready, track pkge car, ready to battle its biggest competitor? C'mon, of course they did. It lost fare and square. Its still an awesome car regardless. Look at it this way, the two fastest production cars to run LS are AMERICAN!

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

I can't imagine this GTS has track pack wheels without the upgraded rotors. As much as I'm getting at SRT for this I would never believe they would send anything less than a GTS with track pack. It just is not enough against a car equipped with CCB's and better rubber. That is the part I don't understand.

According to Ralph's tweets there was no 2 sec gap between the ZR1 and and the GTS when they did testing. He said they had a ZR1 around for testing for 2 years. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the way this ZR1 is configured VERY RECENT? If so the ZR1 SRT used for benchmarking didn't use these tires nor had the aero. So this could explain why Ralph and company are shocked at the outcome.

It still bothers me that you would make your new car as fast as the competitions old car. That's a very puzzling move IMHO.

More than likely, the Viper MT tested had the track pack rotors (it would be very odd if it didn't). There is no upgraded aero on the ZR1 as the splitter, spoiler, and side skirts have all been there since the 2009 model. GM started offering PS Cups for the '12 ZR1. The ZR1's PTM started on the '10 ZR1, but I'm not sure if Randy even used it.

 

[GTS Dean]

It was so much simpler back in the early days: You can buy one Viper. It is nasty and barely manageable. It is not for everyone. It stomps the crap out of everything within $100k of its sticker price - for 4 years.

Put another pro in the seat of each one. If the Viper proves faster, it shows that not every racecar driver can drive every car well. If it's slower, Viper = FAIL.

 

[canadian venom]

SRT should sent back a car ( funny if it would be the same car Mt used for th test) before the mag goes on stands and break that damn record. Funnier if Chris is the drive.... A good lesson for that 2 times daytona winner who's affraid of the snake

 

[SnakeBitten]

Oh ok. It sounded like it had some upgraded aero the way it was being talked about. Well still doesn't explain why SRT felt the need to match instead of exceeding the performance of the old ZR1. What sense does that make especially with a new ZR1 on the way? This is an aneurism inducing puzzle.

 

[Viper Grenade]

SRT= Failed
Viper = Failed

Order = Canceled.

Waiting on C7 ZR1

 

[sonofadragracer]

Ralph Gilles ‏@RalphGilles
@Rynomite21 @mt_loverman we've tested both cars at several tracks and never seen a gap like that. Many drivers needlessly fear the Viper

Really? LOL...Yeah, ok. Let's just cut to the chase. You've had roughly two years of R&D time to put a platform out there that would slay the Competition and the preliminary results have missed the mark.
It's pretty simple. A 40HP and slightly increase in TQ is not enough to cut it in a STILL heavy car. From an engineering stand point I'd like to know why they went w/a steel frame w/a mix of alloys. Why not a Hydro Formed Aluminum frame w/Magnesium alloys? Not crash worthy? That's what the ZR1/ZO6 platform runs, plus others.
Why were there steel cross beam or I beams put in the doors? You could've went w/Chromoly.... light and plenty crash worthy, ask the NHRA.
Can you please tell me why you would go w/Hydraulic Motor Mounts? These are heavy..for what? Because there's vibration and we wanna smooth out the ride...NO. I'd like to push the button and have a paint shaker...if not, go get a Cadillac.
Ref. the Motor : Nice that they went w/forged internals, however, you've got over 500CI and you're only at 640 HP! That thing should be around 720 easily. I know a group that get's 800HP out a small block
350 Chevrolet, NASCAR. Why the mildly aggressive Cam upgrade on the intake side..Why not the exhaust side too? Emissions?

Ref. the Interior. Very nice upgrades, however how much weight does it add? 50 thousand speakers, sub woofers and electronic creature features all do one thing...ADD WEIGHT!
It can be nice w/minimal electronics.....it's way over done!
We don't need video game dummy gauges..how about actual MECHANICAL GAUGES. As far as the TC, I know they have to appease the Gov. but mine is my right foot. If you have the option to turn it off then you don't need it. If you have to have all the Modes and the TC to save you then YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN IT!!!!! The PSC's are proven winners, my Gen IV ACR meant business in the turns. I'm not much of a Road Racer, but I have a lot of respect for them... Why change it? Did Pirelli out bid Michelin for the contract or did they out perform the PSC's in testing?
Where's the Carbon Ceramic Brakes? Why stick w/steel ones when the the other set up has proven superior?

The Rawness and the foundations of the Viper was form and function. When you get away from (Power to Weight, Gears and Tires and utilizing CUBIC INCHES and Driving Ability) you get away from an all the principles the car was founded on.
I understand, it's not founded on being a Drag Race Car, but, it damn sure should strike fear in the Competition at the Drag Strip or the Road Race Course, it's a VIPER!
My .02

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

SRT= Failed
Viper = Failed

Order = Canceled.

Waiting on C7 ZR1

It's not even confirmed there will be a C7 ZR1. You might be in for a long wait.

 

[Kratos]

How far can you take this horsepower war? At some point it has to plateau. Viper gets 700hp, then ZR1 gets 750hp, then Viper gets bumped to 800hp, then ZR1 850hp.........and it keeps going because the brand fanboys want to stay on top. And then we have 1000hp production cars that can be bought by some rich 16 year old irresponsible kid......???

At some point, we just need to enjoy these cars instead of the ******* match.















...

 

[Tiago]

I enjoy a 1000 hp viper..... or more, its the best way to go

 

[Lespauldude]

How far can you take this horsepower war? At some point it has to plateau. Viper gets 700hp, then ZR1 gets 750hp, then Viper gets bumped to 800hp, then ZR1 850hp.........and it keeps going because the brand fanboys want to stay on top. And then we have 1000hp production cars that can be bought by some rich 16 year old irresponsible kid......???

At some point, we just need to enjoy these cars instead of the ******* match.















...

Honestly, I don't really see this "******* match" ever going away. I attracts buyer attention and ultimately sells cars. It's competition like this that keeps everyone interested.

 

[SnakeBitten]

How far can you take this horsepower war? At some point it has to plateau. Viper gets 700hp, then ZR1 gets 750hp, then Viper gets bumped to 800hp, then ZR1 850hp.........and it keeps going because the brand fanboys want to stay on top. And then we have 1000hp production cars that can be bought by some rich 16 year old irresponsible kid......???

At some point, we just need to enjoy these cars instead of the ******* match.















...

What's to stop this rich, irresponsible kid from turning a 640hp Viper/Vette/Porsche/Lambo into UGR/ART/Switzer etc and getting a 1200-1500hp monster? It doesn't matter. Irresponsible people will kill themselves in a Yugo. And not only kids fit that bill.

Viper should have had at least 675hp. As it stands SRT was content on making it as fast as the old ZR1. They got the ZR1's straight line speed mimiced down to the tenth sadly but even more sad is it forgot to make it run with the ZR1 on a circuit track.

Usually a new model will EASILY beat the competitions old model. The SRT Viper beats that tried and true history by being the first model to EASILY lose to the competitions old model. Priceless.

 

[DMan]

Man, I can't see anywhere in the silly online article link where it gives the particulars on the cars' specs for this event. The tweets sure suggest the GTS didn't have the track pack, but I can't find a reference in the article, unless I'm missing a link somewhere. I just assumed it did, but now me be confused, duh.

Tweets are suggesting it didn't:

Cody Stewart‏@stewart_cody@mt_loverman Why didn't you guys use the track pack for the Viper? It's supposedly substantially faster than the regular GTS.
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Jonny Lieberman‏@mt_loverman
@stewart_cody Ask Chrysler. My guess would be they haven't built any yet.

 

[Bobpantax]

It did not lose fair and square because the driver had no prior track experience with the Viper and alot of track experience with the Vette. Let Probst play with the Viper for a day or two then do the test over again.

One thing everyone keeps neglecting. Dont you think SRT would send them a production ready, track pkge car, ready to battle its biggest competitor? C'mon, of course they did. It lost fare and square. Its still an awesome car regardless. Look at it this way, the two fastest production cars to run LS are AMERICAN!

 

[Bobpantax]

The MT article clearly states what tires were on both cars. The track pack tires were on the Viper. So were the track pack rims. I think that everyone should be patient. The Laguna "record" will fall to a Viper very soon. Someone who has confidence will drive the car.

 

[yellowmz3]

Personally, I feel SRT missed the mark here. They had 2 years of R&D to BEAT the ZR1 and that should have been their goal. Nissan put the Porsche Turbo in their sights with the GTR, no other car. That was the benchmark they shot for. I was actually quite surprised that SRT didn't have CCB's on the car, even as an option. I'm hearing a lot of defense of SRT for one reason or another, but the bottom line is this: They are shooting for the spot to be #1 in the USA and even though "someone" said they'd never seen a gap like that at previous meets, I wanted him to say: "We came out ahead every time we met at the track". Gap just implies a difference in times, not the victor. Why wouldn't anyone's goal be to SURPASS the challenger?

 

[TrackAire]

Maybe the VCA/VPA can kick in some coin to hire Dr. Phil to provide counselling to the Viper Nation. Lots of moto-meltdowns going on right now

This topic is going to get uglier before it gets better....just like most things in life. On a bright note, the Gen V did return a better MPG than the ZR1

I'll make sure to post that bit of ego destroying information over on the Vette forum, that'll put those guys in a funk

Cheers,
George

 

[TonyCool]

Credit where credit is due. The ZR1 was simply the faster, stronger and better car. There is no way around that. I'm disappointed. I remember a time when any Corvette wasn't even close to touch any Viper of the same year performance wise let alone an older corvette beating an all new viper. Having said that I'd would still take the viper over the ZR1, I just like the looks better, the level of quality of the interior is not even close and the ZR1 looks are just very close to several other corvette models which takes any exclusivity out of the equation. However it would seem that the ZR1 is just the better car.

I can only hope this will be a heads up for SRT, it's time to take a deep breath and start thinking on serious improvements for the ACR version of the Gen5. I don't think it's catastrophic for the SRT viper GTS to have lost against the mighty ZR1, however if the gen5 ACR is not able to beat the C6 ZR1 and the high performance version of the 7th generation corvette when it's available by a healthy margin, then that would be a huge issue.

The world is falling apart, there is now a mustang that will likely beat the all new base 7th generation corvette, and it was just proven that the old ZR1 corvette was faster than the all new viper. May be the world will really end in 4 days...

Tony

 

[vancouver-gts]

read the MT article and the comments .

Randy Pobst 5pts
2 hours ago
Jonny, I love your honest and funny writing. But just hang on a minute, hold the phone. I WAS flat over the Mazda Laguna turn one kink-jump on my last lap effort in the Viper! I know cause I have the stain in my underwear to prove it. I was not at all sure it would stay on track and it almost didn't. Vette speed advantage is from corner exit of turn eleven, leading on that straight. Vette and Viper are both brawny, thrilling, fabulous machines.



Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests..._zr1_srt_viper_gts/viewall.html#ixzz2FLU7nPyL




. I think the new Viper should have had bigger brakes just like the ZR1's 15" + size. Also mentioned shocks and susupension issues?