My New 2013 Viper!

[tcsracing1]

What? In virtually every mulit-make racing organization the Viper is restricted more than any other car just so the others can be competitive. I'm sitting here trying to figure out what you're talking about.

for street legal vipers fresh from the dealership and onto a track it would be nice for them them to be a little more engineered to run in the twistys with that of the porsche GT3s for example.

something 2900-3000 pounds, balanced and easily aligned for track would be nice.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

for street legal vipers fresh from the dealership and onto a track it would be nice for them them to be a little more engineered to run in the twistys with that of the porsche GT3s for example.

something 2900-3000 pounds, balanced and easily aligned for track would be nice.

You mean like 7:22.1 around Nurburgring? Nurburgring, it's in Germany...Porsche's backyard. What did the GT3 run?
2010 Porsche GT3 laps the Nurburgring in 7m 40 seconds - 4wheelsnews.com

You're new, I'll take it easy on you.

 

[JackDud]

This thread is very, very entertaining, and I just must say, I really like chuck!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

This thread is very, very entertaining, and I just must say, I really like chuck!

I'm censored here. To read what I'd really like to say you'd have to visit the other board.

 

[BigDawg]

ESC or not, the 2013 Viper will have to be approx 3000 pounds with as close to 50/50 weight distribution as possible not to mention easier trackable alignment adjustments to have a chance in competing with the over crowded market.

with ferrari design being introduced i feel this can be accomplished.

I will have one of these new vipers if they handle the twisties as good as they have handled the straights over all these years.....

Seriously where did you come up with this information. I am guessing (hoping) you are a high school student who got a little excited...please tell me you are not a grown man

 

[shooter_t1]

You mean like 7:22.1 around Nurburgring? Nurburgring, it's in Germany...Porsche's backyard. What did the GT3 run?
2010 Porsche GT3 laps the Nurburgring in 7m 40 seconds - 4wheelsnews.com

You're new, I'll take it easy on you.

Perfect answer

Whats even better is that that wasn't even a 2010 Viper.

 

[CitySnake]

This thread is very, very entertaining, and I just must say, I really like chuck!

Ahh ... Chuck's not nearly as "spiffy" as he thinks!

 

[tcsracing1]

You mean like 7:22.1 around Nurburgring? Nurburgring, it's in Germany...Porsche's backyard. What did the GT3 run?
2010 Porsche GT3 laps the Nurburgring in 7m 40 seconds - 4wheelsnews.com

You're new, I'll take it easy on you.

the production ACR is a demon on the straights but can be better in the twisties.
The 'Ring has a lot of high speed sections and for that it is the king of the 'Ring.

The Viper platform can be better most certainly. And lighter too.

 

[tcsracing1]

Seriously where did you come up with this information. I am guessing (hoping) you are a high school student who got a little excited...please tell me you are not a grown man

PRI in orlando florida this year. I guess i could be wrong. They are only Dodge employees and dealers, Ralph Gilles etc..........

Based on what im hearing, one can expect some injection from Fiat make no doubt about it. But to what extent is the question?

Im definitely not a grown man. I race cars during my time off.

 

[tcsracing1]

Perfect answer

Whats even better is that that wasn't even a 2010 Viper.

Correct, the 2010 ACR has better gearing (finally) and would perform a better lap time as result. Probably match the GT2RS time of 7.18.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

TCS racing ---- you seem to have gone full circle. Not really sure what the direction you were trying to obtain, but the Viper inherently goes through the corners/sweepers faster than a Porsche. I frankly really enjoy Porsches, am a DE Instructor, but this is just physics, and when a turn or twisties come up most of the Porsche guys get out of the way of a Snake ---- it's physics man. Engine in the rear, see the pendulum swing, mid engine ( yes, the motor is behind the front axle of the Viper ) beast with near 50/50 weight distribution and watch out around the curves.

There is a reason the Snake ran a 1:33 at Laguna Seca and just weeks later a twin Turbo ran a 1:37. Love the GT3 , but the times are not stacking up to an ACR at VIR, Laguna Seca , Willow, or Nurburgring, so not sure about the straight line verbage. Heck at Nurburgring that was it's problem , hence the new 5th gear to allow it to pull decent speed down the straights. Pick up a Road and Track ( if memory serves me right ) and the top G force listed is an ACR.

Nuff said, because as Chuckie mentioned, these cars have been restricted to death by practically every motorsport venue to try and keep them from running away from the crowd!

 

[tcsracing1]

TCS racing ---- you seem to have gone full circle. Not really sure what the direction you were trying to obtain, but the Viper inherently goes through the corners/sweepers faster than a Porsche. I frankly really enjoy Porsches, am a DE Instructor, but this is just physics, and when a turn or twisties come up most of the Porsche guys get out of the way of a Snake ---- it's physics man. Engine in the rear, see the pendulum swing, mid engine ( yes, the motor is behind the front axle of the Viper ) beast with near 50/50 weight distribution and watch out around the curves.

There is a reason the Snake ran a 1:33 at Laguna Seca and just weeks later a twin Turbo ran a 1:37. Love the GT3 , but the times are not stacking up to an ACR at VIR, Laguna Seca , Willow, or Nurburgring, so not sure about the straight line verbage. Heck at Nurburgring that was it's problem , hence the new 5th gear to allow it to pull decent speed down the straights. Pick up a Road and Track ( if memory serves me right ) and the top G force listed is an ACR.

Nuff said, because as Chuckie mentioned, these cars have been restricted to death by practically every motorsport venue to try and keep them from running away from the crowd!

I have seen GT3's out dance vipers on technical sections of tracks only to be blown away (big time) by the vipers on the straights (like really big time), that being said bone stock 2010 GT3RS with slicks are running 7:11-7:22's on the 'Ring all day long. That is 2010 ACR territory last time i checked. (although slicks do help shave 2-3 second per minute of track time )

You are correct with the physics of the rear engine porsche however the viper will snap oversteer very quickly if one gets on the gas too aggressively on exit. So it is give and take with both cars.

I did not mean to say that the viper is a slouch in the corners with only HP to make up for it.

Again, my point being that the 2013 viper in order to improve needs to be 2900-3100 pounds max. (lighter then zo6 vette at least)
And it would be nice for it to feel "small" in the technical sections as opposed to "big".

2013 will bring a lot of refined competition. Im very eager to see what Viper brings to the table.....

 

[shooter_t1]

Correct, the 2010 ACR has better gearing (finally) and would perform a better lap time as result. Probably match the GT2RS time of 7.18.

Again, the "7.18" time was never a full run, hence no video proof. It was a time that Porsche got by adding all the different timed sections together.

 

[shooter_t1]

I have seen GT3's out dance vipers on technical sections of tracks only to be blown away (big time) by the vipers on the straights (like really big time), that being said bone stock 2010 GT3RS with slicks are running 7:11-7:22's on the 'Ring all day long. That is 2010 ACR territory last time i checked. (although slicks do help shave 2-3 second per minute of track time )

Do you have any recorded proof of these "bone stock GT3RS with slicks" running 7:11-7:22'?. Those are awesome times and I'd really like to see them.

 

[tcsracing1]

Do you have any recorded proof of these "bone stock GT3RS with slicks" running 7:11-7:22'?. Those are awesome times and I'd really like to see them.

Check out the last 24H race of the 'Ring 2010.
2010 RS drove to the track, raced, placed, and drove back to the factory.

I can dig up track test data and results prior to that race and camparos as it is not disputed.
I also know that the 2010RS is typically 20 seconds off a porsche cup on the ring with the CUPs running sub 7's.

for example:

the VLN lap is 1:40 to 1:50 slower than the Nurburgring lap.

Walter Rohrl ran a fast lap of 9:01 in the VLN race, so his 2010 GT3 RS equipped with Michelin Cup 18" slicks, and some minor tweaks is capable of a 7:11 to 7:21 lap time around the Nurburgring.


I have competitively driven both srt10 and gt3rs.
I love both machines. this is why i know what i would really like to see in a 2013 viper.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

the production ACR is a demon on the straights but can be better in the twisties.
The 'Ring has a lot of high speed sections and for that it is the king of the 'Ring.

154 turns in 13 miles? There is no way 11 turns per mile is gonna favor a straights demon over a twisties car. Please, don't reply. Just sit back and learn for a while. I really don't know how much longer I can be gentle.

 

[shooter_t1]

Check out the last 24H race of the 'Ring 2010.
2010 RS drove to the track, raced, placed, and drove back to the factory.

I can dig up track test data and results prior to that race and camparos as it is not disputed.
I also know that the 2010RS is typically 20 seconds off a porsche cup on the ring with the CUPs running sub 7's.

for example:

the VLN lap is 1:40 to 1:50 slower than the Nurburgring lap.

Walter Rohrl ran a fast lap of 9:01 in the VLN race, so his 2010 GT3 RS equipped with Michelin Cup 18" slicks, and some minor tweaks is capable of a 7:11 to 7:21 lap time around the Nurburgring.


I have competitively driven both srt10 and gt3rs.
I love both machines. this is why i know what i would really like to see in a 2013 viper.

Walter Rohrl never raced the 2010 24h race. He pulled out due to a back injury.

You had stated that "Bone stock w/slicks were running 7:11's all day long". Looks like you are basing this on a supposition of the VLN times...so just like the 7:18 time...it hasn't been done.


You said you race Viper's competitively..I hope your not basing all this "viper needs to handle better" stuff on a "2005 vert with 37000 miles and worn shocks"

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

You said you race Viper's competitively..

He said he's "competitively driven them" as in he handed some guy a valet stub for the keys and then drove it to the end of the parking lot.

 

[JackDud]

PRI in orlando florida this year. I guess i could be wrong. They are only Dodge employees and dealers, Ralph Gilles etc..........

Based on what im hearing, one can expect some injection from Fiat make no doubt about it. But to what extent is the question?

Im definitely not a grown man. I race cars during my time off.

I race cars during my time off too! My Playstation username for Gran Turismo is FuneralDirector, add me!

 

[tcsracing1]

Again, the "7.18" time was never a full run, hence no video proof. It was a time that Porsche got by adding all the different timed sections together.

the 7.18 run was not complete, however @ less than 3200 pounds and over 600hp it is very accurate. Bare in mind CUP cars are running as low a 6:40 with 2800 pound and 450HP.

It is not hard to calculate approx times capable of most autos if you know the data from various race tracks, slicks, etc.
Avid racers and teams tend to use this data as a gauge.

 

[PDCjonny]

Must be the reincarnation of Racer Robbie with all the misinformation.

 

[tcsracing1]

Walter Rohrl never raced the 2010 24h race. He pulled out due to a back injury.

You had stated that "Bone stock w/slicks were running 7:11's all day long". Looks like you are basing this on a supposition of the VLN times...so just like the 7:18 time...it hasn't been done.


You said you race Viper's competitively..I hope your not basing all this "viper needs to handle better" stuff on a "2005 vert with 37000 miles and worn shocks"

You are correct, Walter never made it to race day. He did all the testing however. The car was still raced none the less with plenty of data recorded.
If you dont think the GT2RS 7:18 time is possible nor a 2010RS on slicks running 7:11-7:21 then i guess you dont follow this type of motorsport outside of auto magazines.
Again, the VLN calculation of approx 1:40-1:50 difference compared to the 'Ring is not made up or disputed.

Im not making up false claims here, but rather relaying actual data to show the close comparisons.

i have competitively driven a handful of automobiles including yee-haa stint in my ol' 05 viper.

 

[shooter_t1]

You are correct, Walter never made it to race day. He did all the testing however. The car was still raced none the less with plenty of data recorded.
If you dont think the GT2RS 7:18 time is possible nor a 2010RS on slicks running 7:11-7:21 then i guess you dont follow this type of motorsport outside of auto magazines.
Again, the VLN calculation of approx 1:40-1:50 difference compared to the 'Ring is not made up or disputed.

Im not making up false claims here, but rather relaying actual data to show the close comparisons.

i have competitively driven a handful of automobiles including yee-haa stint in my ol' 05 viper.

You are making false claims. Here's what you said, "bone stock 2010 GT3RS with slicks are running 7:11-7:22's on the 'Ring all day long."

But they are not. It hasn't been done. Is it possible?, maybe but I doubt it. The GT2RS should be able to though. Alot of us on this site (including the SRT guys at Dodge, who actually timed the WHOLE lap, not just sections) believe the 08-09 ACR is capable of 7:11-16's. The 2010 with improved aero and gearing should do better. But I have yet to hear someone say the "2010 Viper ACR is running 7:10's at the ring all day long". Why?, because it hasn't been done.

 

[Bandit3]

SIC EM, Chuck!!!

 

[tcsracing1]

You are making false claims. Here's what you said, "bone stock 2010 GT3RS with slicks are running 7:11-7:22's on the 'Ring all day long."

But they are not. It hasn't been done. Is it possible?, maybe but I doubt it. The GT2RS should be able to though. Alot of us on this site (including the SRT guys at Dodge, who actually timed the WHOLE lap, not just sections) believe the 08-09 ACR is capable of 7:11-16's. The 2010 with improved aero and gearing should do better. But I have yet to hear someone say the "2010 Viper ACR is running 7:10's at the ring all day long". Why?, because it hasn't been done.

I think before you consider my claims to be false you need to reconsider the following.

In the 24Hr race they use the F1 GP circuit as well in addition to the 'Ring, so the lap times are even longer. It is known that these times (for the porsche anyhow) is consistently 1:40-1:50 longer. With a 9:01 best time recorded in the GT3RS on VLN it is not rocket science to see what the car is producing on the 'Ring portion which is the section we are discussing and commonly used by Porsche RS owners with slicks in germany nowadays. People such as 'Chris Harris' have applied this math to numerous different cars and it tends to be accurate and not made up by any means. This is actually a consensus at the ring amongst racers, one can choose not to believe it if they wish.

The reason why you probably are not hearing that street vipers are running low times all day long on the 'ring is due to the fact that they are not as commonly tracked on the 'Ring as some of these RS porsches.
Make no doubt about it that ACR vipers with slicks are capable of running low 7's all day long. Just because we dont hear about it dosnt make it false.
I would be surprised to hear that a private ACR owner hasnt hit low 7s on slicks to be honest. It is just that alot more porsche traffic hits the ring in a year compared to vipers i assume which i why alot more track data is available on the porsche CUP and RS street car. This is why i used the porsche as an example.

Anyhow, as i earlier stated, for a 2013 viper i would love to see 2900-3100 pounds, and the ability to play with toe, camber and bump steer for track fun.

for 2013 the ferraris, porsches, lambos etc will all be offering more performance and lighter weight thus i sincerely hope the viper will be that much better too in order to continue the fight.

 

[shooter_t1]

Blah,blah,blah,blah

Your not tracking too well are you. You can talk about what if's all day. It's not a fact until it's been done.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

and the ability to play with toe, camber and bump steer for track fun.

What? You mean Grand Turismo doesn't have adjustable toe, camber and bump on their Vipers yet?

There are trackers and there are bench racers. We all know which one you are. Adios kid.

 

[F8L SNK]

google the screen name he uses. It appears he races or raced a GT3RS. Explains bias but I don't think he is a kid.

 

[JBsZ06]

Smart move as the new 2013 viper will be true to form and its viper heritage.

Best of luck and enjoy the anticipation of your new beast!

 

[kcobean]

The presence of the term "racing slicks" or "slicks" in any post in this thread nullifies the validity of any claims made one way or the other anyhow. It's called a "production car record" for a reason and last I checked, slicks are not being offered on any production car. So what happens to the times the VW GTxR's are running when they use a street legal tire?