VERY FRUSTRATED!!! HAVE one last post before i loose it.

[Nates GTS Viper]

I really hate to bother you all with my problems once again but am coming to wits end with my car. Ive searched for answers but havent found any so ill start at the begining and hopefully we can find a solution to my problem.
Ok first off I was having initial problems with my 96 gts after a roe install. Everything went smooth and i drove it for around 1000 miles. After that i started to run it harder through the gears and noticed in third and fourth that the car would lose boost and the power would drop off. I then got the belt tensioner changed because i thought that the belt might be slipping but that didnt fix the problem. I then got caught in a thunderstorm where my car shut off and wouldnt start back up. At first i thought it was a wet vec so i dried it out but that didnt work either. I then found that the main engine ground on the passenger side was not connected. I assume when the shop did the tensioner install they left it off and as a result my vec 2 had got messed up. So i then bought a vec 3 hooked it up and the car fired right up. Pulled it out of the garage got about 5 feet and oil started to spray all over the place. I shut it down and found that one of the oil cooler lines had a hole in it. So i give chuck a call and order both lines. During the swap i found that the two stainless braided lines where acting as the ground when the main ground was unhooked and that it caused the line to burn a hole through itself. I then looked at the oil cooler and found i needed to replace that as well. So now we are finally up to the point im at now. Here is whats going on:
1) The car starts and idles but smokes like a freight train.
2) During quick taps at the throttle it will sometimes take it but then almost stalls.
3) When trying to rev the motor it sometimes sounds healthy but other times sputters really bad and doesnt want to rev.

I took it for a short short drive just to see if it would clear up after resetting the computer and just babying it it didnt run to bad except when youd let off the throttle it would want to almost cut off. Also while driving it i left a smoke cloud behind me that killed every insect in central va.

I just need to know where to start to look for problems or need guidence on what to check bc i just dont have a clue. Also with the vec 3 im just running a base map that sean sent me on a card if that matters.

The car is a 96 GTS with 20,000 miles, belanger headers no cats and corsa catback, im running a 10# pulley with a msd bap, its got kn filters smooth tubes new plugs and newer( year old) plug wires and a walbro 255 fuel pump.

Please if you can help let me know I loved the way the Roe puts out the power and dont want to have to remove it and go back to stock. Also anyone that has the tuning ability in the va area and would be willing to help me out with that would be paid well.. Thanks again to everyone and sorry so long but this will be my last thread i start about this situation and wanted to get everything out on the table.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Please guys and gals 34 veiws and no suggestions, thoughts, or comments. If I cant get this figured out by the end of this weekend I just might start the teardown and begin to go back to N/A, and I really dont want to do that.

 

[Phil Lee 94 red RT]

this sounds dumb, but have you checked your battery? lots of problems show up when bat is weak.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Yeah its a new battery not even 2 months old but ill check it when I get back home. Whats the least it should read if its up to the job? Also thanks for the idea.

 

[Ray W]

Compression check. That will eliminate the really major stuff. Then fuel supply and ignition system. Wires,plugs coil packs etc. You could also remove the belt and disconnect the VEC and see if it runs normal.

 

[uvbnbit]

Fuel injectors? Are you running W/M too? (or did I miss that)

 

[Brentt]

I don't think the problem is your Roe.
Is the smoke blue or black? If it's blue you're blowing oil, if it's black, it's fuel. If it's white it's water. Whatever it is, you probably at least got some fouled plugs. I don't know if it's possible but since you were messing with the oil cooler be sure the lines aren't reversed. Good luck!

 

[xlrashn]

If you could tell us what color the smoke is, that would really help us get you going in a direction.

 

[whitebluevipe]

did you ask chuck when you ordered parts from him? i am sure he would have some pretty educated guesses.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Just checked the code and it is a idle system control malfunction. Any ideas if that could be the cause of the problem? Thanks again for all the help.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Did you throw a CEL? You didn't say but I would think you might if it is missing badly. I would definitely recheck the plugs and see what they tell you -- fouled (with oil or gas?), white (leaner), black (too rich), do all look the same (or is the problem limited to 1 or 2 cylinders?).

Look at the oil on the dipstick, does it look normal? Is it frothy or does it look white or milky. You want to eliminate a blown head gasket. A head gasket can blow in a lot of different ways and its not always obvious from the outside, i.e. you don't have to have coolant or oil running down the side of the head.

I'm not sure what vacuum the V10 would have with a Roe but you should also check for vacuum leaks. Is there a vacuum line disconnected somewhere? Is the manifold gasket leaking? On my car there is a vacuum fitting way in the back of the engine that is almost impossible to see and when it came off the car ran crappy.

Compression check should also be on the agenda to make sure you didn't hurt something when you first started to get on it after the first 1000 miles. It only takes a heartbeat to seriously break something if you are running too lean. Does the engine make any bad internal sounds like something is loose or broke. Has there been any increase in valve noise? Pull the valve covers and make sure you don't have any broken valve springs or other broken stuff.

Check fuel pressure and A/F if you have a wide band O2 installed. If you don't have a wide band put one in.

That's what I can come up with quickly. Please repost when you learn more.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Well the oil looks normal and as for the plugs they were just changed along with the new oil cooler lines. My other plugs were soaked with gas and were kinda black. Also up to the point where my car shut off and i had to replace the vec 2 with the vec3 the car didnt smoke and ran just fine. So could there be any way that this is related to the tune?

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Also the engine sounds fine it doesnt make anymore noise than it always has so I dont think I hurt the motor. Also at one point before i changed the lines and plugs it was actually spitting fuel out of the exhaust.

 

[AZTVR]

as for the plugs they were just changed along with the new oil cooler lines. My other plugs were soaked with gas and were kinda black. Also up to the point where my car shut off and i had to replace the vec 2 with the vec3 the car didnt smoke and ran just fine. So could there be any way that this is related to the tune?

I think that the point was yo use your "new" plugs as an analysis tool. It might help determine what is going on in this current issue since their condition today is going to relate to the latest issues. It is worth the time documenting what each looks like today, in order to help the more experienced folks draw conclusions.

 

[Red Snake]

I'd take it to a Roe installer/tuner and make sure your install and tune are correct.

 

[ViperJohn]

What color is the smoke coming out of the tail pipes?

I suspect it may be the tune causing it to run too rich or lean which would explain the sputtering. Get an A/F measurement if possible.

I would also check/clean the IAC motor and check the MAP sensor to make sure it is connected properly.

I have never installed a ROE but if there is a way to run the stock belt (by-pass blower pulley) and see how it runs.

Double-check all electrical connections on the VEC and PCM. You may have another loose ground somewhere. I would also try resetting the PCM and turn the car on, but don't start. Depress the acclerator pedeal fully a couple of time for the PCM and TPS to sync up.

Good luck working through the issues. What part of VA are you in, perhaps we can locate someone to help you.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

To me it sounds like you are running extremely rich, thus all the smoke. You say your previous spark plugs were pretty much fouled, so that is a sign that your tune in not "tuned."
Do you have a WBO2 sensor to monitor your AFRs?

I would not run a tune from Sean and not check it first. He sends very conservative tunes, especially for a 10# setup and his tunes are also for sea level where he's at. When he sent mine, I had to lean it out because I'm at 4500ft and the car would barely run. You may have to play with the LTFTs and injector scaling on the VEC. Also, the VEC3 has adjustable IAT function so that may be off as well.
You'll need access to a laptop and the serial cable on the VEC to link them. You will also need the tuning software from Sean and a good OBDII scan tool to monitor LTFTs.

good luck and don't get discouraged

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Compression check. That will eliminate the really major stuff. Then fuel supply and ignition system. Wires,plugs coil packs etc. You could also remove the belt and disconnect the VEC and see if it runs normal.

I thought of this as well, but he is most likely running bigger injectors and the PCM won't start on those without the VEC scaling them.

Nate,
definitely go through your system and check and recheck all the connections and grounds before you start messing with the tuning I mentioned above. You need to make sure everything is working right before you go changing the tune.
Take the VEC instruction manual and recheck every wire in the VEC system.

 

[Russ M]

1) You need to tell us what color the smoke is without that diagnosis is imposible.
2) When you put in the vec 3 did you tune it?
3) Pull the new plugs you put in now and post pictures of them. And remember to keep track what cylinder they came from so you can tell us.

 

[RobZ]

I'm assuming the smoke is blue and it's due to the fact that the oil line sprayed oil all over the exhaust. It is probably just burning itself off and will eventually dissipate.

If it's coming OUT the exhaust then that's a different situation.



Rob

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Ok Ill get some pics of the plugs but dont know how to post them on the sight so if anyone would be willing I could email them the pics if they could post them up. Ill also take a few pics of the smoke and exhaust too, just let me know who to email.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

I just got done getting pics of all the plugs. I couldnt do a compression check because the one you get from autozone wont work on our cars. But just incase i cant get the pics up ill describe them best i can. They only have around a half hour run time on them with no hard driving and only been up to 4000 rpm once or twice. Cylinders 1-4 all looked about the same real sooty black with a little bit of white in certain places on the electrode. #5 however was soaked with gas and still very clean. On cylinders 6-10 it was the exact same as 1-5.

 

[Joseph Dell]

And the color of the smoke is......... ???????

You are rich as hell. And your VEC tune is wrong.

 

[DVSGTS]

Sounds like your base tune is way off. You have to verify your LTFTs with a scan tool to get your injectors scaled correctly, then work on the rest of the tune from there. Been there, done that, almost fumigated myself out of the garage while setting things up at idle.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Well the color of the smoke is a id say blueish color but Im 99% sure its fuel. I pulled the idle air control valve plug out to see if that would make any difference ( checking to see if it would run worse) but it ran the same so i tried to clean it with electic parts cleaner and now it will start up run a few seconds and then shut down. After it shuts down it will then start back up and do the same thi g run a few seconds then shut down. I even tried to hold the rpms at 2500 one time but it still cut off. Also thanks for all the help so far.

 

[DVSGTS]

Any codes?

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Yeah it threw a 0505 idle air control malfunction

 

[BOTTLEFED]

it will throw a code if you pull the connector on it while the car is running

 

[AZTVR]

So, do I understand right that it ran differently before and after you disconnected and reconnected the Idle Air Control valve plug ?

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Ok to clarify the code for the idle air contol was already in the computer before I unplugged it. I then unplugged it while it was running to find out if it would make a noticable difference in the way the car was running and it did not, the car still ran the same. So I didnt cause it to throw the code it had already thrown it. I hope that helps. Also what does the idle air control valve do or control?