Well, 8th and 9th place in GT Would it be considered a successful return after 10 year layoff ? Is nine laps short of the winner consider respectful? I come from the NHRA world so just qualifying there after 10 years would be a success! Not to mention finishing 8th That would be like winning a round before being eliminated, you would go back and high five your team!
What do you think on where we placed at Le Mans?
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bluestreak
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I'm sure SRT are not happy and neither should their fans be. I'm pretty sure they are being forced to run heavier than the other cars and with smaller restrictors (less hp). The ACO does everything but create fair competition. It's a shame.
Glad to see they both finished.
A lot had to be learned.
Was not expecting a win first time back in 13 years.
BUT a little higher would have been nice.
A lot had to be learned.
Was not expecting a win first time back in 13 years.
BUT a little higher would have been nice.
I Bin Therbefor
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Time to team with ORECA for the LeMans and any other European events. Being a French team, they know how to work the rules or get them changed. 
Was nice to see both cars finish at least. Haven't watched the whole race yet (have the last 6 hours recorded), but you figure with one or two less blunders they may have been higher up in the running. If a lap is roughly 4 minutes and they finished around 10 back then you figure if they didn't have to pull in to the garage that one time and dig Tommy out of the sand the other that they may have been more up in the running. I'd guess maybe 15 minutes lost between those two? That almost cuts the gap to the leader in half.
rw99
Enthusiast
Posted in another thread, but more applicable here:
I wonder to what extent these race results will play a role in future rule-making regarding the Viper, both in ALMS/UnitedSportsCar and at LeMans.
Common sense would seem to dictate that the GTS-R's are slightly over-restricted and unable to keep truly competitive pace. But a bit of cynicism by race series organizers might be difficult to overcome: they may believe that the team runs slow because of the learning curve in completely sorting out car set-ups and/or race strategies. Also possible (highly cynical, but possible) that this year's LeMans results will be seen in the context of SRT prioritizing finishing over reaching the podium.
I'm a new fan of GT racing, with incomplete knowledge. I guess I'd be interested to know some of the raw data from this year's LeMans, mainly top speeds (and perhaps turn exit speeds) that would allow us to evaluate the GTS-R's vs. their competitors from a strictly performance-based perspective. That said, it's understood that the car setup impacts these measures, and makes these comparisons less clear.
What can't be questioned are the performances of the drivers, and I congratulate them on successful finishes for both cars and thank them for all of the effort and preparation that they put into this race.
Rich
I wonder to what extent these race results will play a role in future rule-making regarding the Viper, both in ALMS/UnitedSportsCar and at LeMans.
Common sense would seem to dictate that the GTS-R's are slightly over-restricted and unable to keep truly competitive pace. But a bit of cynicism by race series organizers might be difficult to overcome: they may believe that the team runs slow because of the learning curve in completely sorting out car set-ups and/or race strategies. Also possible (highly cynical, but possible) that this year's LeMans results will be seen in the context of SRT prioritizing finishing over reaching the podium.
I'm a new fan of GT racing, with incomplete knowledge. I guess I'd be interested to know some of the raw data from this year's LeMans, mainly top speeds (and perhaps turn exit speeds) that would allow us to evaluate the GTS-R's vs. their competitors from a strictly performance-based perspective. That said, it's understood that the car setup impacts these measures, and makes these comparisons less clear.
What can't be questioned are the performances of the drivers, and I congratulate them on successful finishes for both cars and thank them for all of the effort and preparation that they put into this race.
Rich
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
I think they did great!
You have to realize that not only were our drivers new to this event/track, their practice time was effectively cut in half because of senseless wrecks during practice hours because of overly aggressive driving and then the weather played havoc on further tuning before the race. They had to basically go with what they thought would work and drive around it all while learning the circuit, that being said they should be extremely proud to have finished let alone so well!
You have to realize that not only were our drivers new to this event/track, their practice time was effectively cut in half because of senseless wrecks during practice hours because of overly aggressive driving and then the weather played havoc on further tuning before the race. They had to basically go with what they thought would work and drive around it all while learning the circuit, that being said they should be extremely proud to have finished let alone so well!
Joe Dozzo
Enthusiast
I agree with Mark. Just finishing with both cars first time out is a huge accomplishment!
ViperArry
Enthusiast
Agree over here..... just finishing at Le Mans is a heck of a job. Yes, they did win back in the days. But what happened in 1994 and 1996?? Just to remember those days, look over here.http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Le_Mans-1994-06-19.html The number 40 car finished 12th, 71 laps behind the winner. The number 41 car had a DNF. In 1996 the Viper was back, and scored a 10th place 34 laps from the winner. http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Le_Mans-1996-06-16.html
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
If they let the Viper run at 640hp vs. it's restricted 400hp??? .... With a little bit of luck...Hell we might win the whole thing!
How can the street version run more HP then this "race" car? What's the point?
How can the street version run more HP then this "race" car? What's the point?
vancouver-gts
Viper Owner
Guess finishing the race with both cars is great. Couldn't stand the LMP1 cars being obnoxious though. Speed coverage wasn't the greatest either. Watched at least 14 hrs of the race and never caught footage of Viper team in the pit, hardly a mention by the announcers of the new Viper getting back onto the game. won't bother watching it on the telly next year.
I think the idea is to try to even out the car performance across all brands to make it more fair. Obviously that's a tall task as it seems some teams spend more time trying to bend rules and find loopholes than to actually design the cars, but I still like the idea more than spec racing. Sure driver skill and vehicle setup matter, but it's fun to see innovation work into the sport as well.
I agree on the Speed coverage too. For the Sebring race they were all over Viper's return to the sport. The Le Mans race seemed more about Audi than anything else. There was one point where they had the Viper in the garage fixing something in the earlier hours and a few mentions of the team coming back for the first time in a while, but very little for such a long race.
ViperSmith
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Could have done better - but IMHO did well for a first go.
bluestreak
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Yeah, all of that is fine and well, but but they were what 4-5 seconds off the pace. No one will be satisfied with that on a grand stage like Lemans. They were behind several of the outdated GTE AM cars. They had made great strides in ALMS. I doubt they are displeased with the effort, but the result leaves a lot to be desired. They are a competitive GT team in terms of pace. Personally I think both Corvette and Viper got screwed by the rule set. WEC cars will get and advantage because they have relative performance standards in the other WEC events. The Astons had a ton of waivers, and the Porsche's sandbagged the other WEC events to get a smaller restrictor and more power. The two biggest motors with the most Torque should not be getting walked like they were.
Early on there was a chat with Tommy Kendall and then later an excerpt from Justin Bell on the new Viper, but overall I think we all hoped for a bit more press and shots in the pits , etc. Those who have raced or participated in racing know that to finish at LeMans is considered a success. This year the weather played havoc and conditions bordered on the impossible , so to bring those two dragons home at the end really was an accomplishment. I am of the belief that the V10 puts fear into the organizors that it would have the power to run away and hide, and the runs down the Mulsanne Straight should be heavy ammunition that the Viper is instead being strangled. Never saw a shot, during the coverage, where other cars in class did not pull away from the GTSR in the straights. The individual that suggested this might lead to some rethinking on the part of the ALMS concerning engine, weight and restrictions is frankly right on cue. Would expect SRT to voice their concerns and hopefully the future will see a Snake that is not asthmatic , sucking for air to fill it's 10 cylinders. Overall , a pleasure to see the Snake slithering around France, but next year let's hope the FIA gives it back some of it's poison!?
Solid Red 98
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I think many of the members here are not acknowledging how remarkable SRT's performance actually was. Not only is this car and team brand new, with no previous data at Le Mans, bad weather and wrecks cut down on testing time tremendously. The vipers were also running down on power relative to the other cars because the ACO hasn't found a good balance for performance restrictions yet since the car is so new. The fact that they finished with very few mechanical problems is VERY encouraging for the future. Pace can be found, but it doesn't mean anything without reliability. I talked to some of their engineers and the original plan was to enter the 24 hours in 2014. But since the team has been coming together so quickly and they received an invitation, they decided to run in the 2013 running to gather testing information for a full assault in 2014. Of course they wanted to do better, but given the circumstances I was very impressed by the team's performance. Next year will be very interesting!
Policy Limits
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A friend attended the event. I'm messaging him now to see if he got any pics or info....
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Good perspective!
PatentLaw
Enthusiast
If you look at the technical data, the SRT automobiles were short on top speed by about 3 mph compared to the winners. Over a 24 hour race, multiplication would be about 70 miles. I would agree with another poster that the SRT's were slightly overrestricted. Even the best lap that the SRT crew could muster did not come close to the winners. Even if the drivers of the other autos were clearly better, the SRT drivers would have had a few "lucky" laps over 24 hours where they came close. That did not happen. Looking at the Corvette effort as well, they were rowing uphill verses the competitors.
TrackAire
Enthusiast
SRT did well to finish the race, but the problem with this type of restricted racing is it really is kind of boring. As the cars accelerated down the long straight, you could see they were slow. The prototype classes were just so much faster, it made for dangerous passing and overtaking with the speed they caught up to the Vipers/Vettes/Porsches.
My wife watched about 80% of the race. She asked me how much horsepower that Viper had and I said something around 480 hp. She thought for a second and responded "My SUV has more horsepower than that.....that's stupid, why less than a stock Viper?"
Restricting hp does not save money in the long run, teams spend untold dollars and time trying to get every little bit out of a car with the restrictions. This makes for expensive racing and in the end actually is dangerous for the drivers because the cars are often compromised by restrictions so drivers have to take more chances often times with a less stable car.
I hope 2014 is better for SRT, but unless you have a local team run the deal it will be very hard to compete with the French connection and good ole boy network over there.
Cheers,
George
My wife watched about 80% of the race. She asked me how much horsepower that Viper had and I said something around 480 hp. She thought for a second and responded "My SUV has more horsepower than that.....that's stupid, why less than a stock Viper?"
Restricting hp does not save money in the long run, teams spend untold dollars and time trying to get every little bit out of a car with the restrictions. This makes for expensive racing and in the end actually is dangerous for the drivers because the cars are often compromised by restrictions so drivers have to take more chances often times with a less stable car.
I hope 2014 is better for SRT, but unless you have a local team run the deal it will be very hard to compete with the French connection and good ole boy network over there.
Cheers,
George
anaconda666
Enthusiast
To me, all racing nowadays is boring compared to years ago. Technology is killing racing for the fans. They might as well just take the drivers out of F1 cars and race them radio controlled with how much telemetry they are allowed to use. A race car should be shifted with your hand not your fingertips and a steering wheel should just steer the car. Bring back Can Am racing!
Oh yeah, to answer the original question - pretty disappointing results so far with their return to the track - but not completely their fault.
Oh yeah, to answer the original question - pretty disappointing results so far with their return to the track - but not completely their fault.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
One Mag...
Despite the styling similarities, class restrictions ensure the GTS-R has to weigh at least 2,745 lbs (1,245 kg), can only produce 450-500 hp (336-373 kW / 456-507 PS) and can only hit a top speed of 180 mph (290 km/h).
Another Mag...
2013 SRT Viper GTS-R
Top Gear
Two Viper GTS-Rs will race this year, and interestingly, the Viper gets special dispensation. Normal Le Mans rules caps GT petrol engine size at 5.5-litres, but SRT got permission to run an 8.0-litre version of its V10, though restricted by a special intake. It does, as the SRT team concede, "take a big chunk out of Viper's power curve", but they reckon it'll still be quick.
It runs 455bhp, a 182mph top speed, a paddle shift gearbox, huge 380mm Brembo discs up front and 330mm discs at the back, 18in forged magnesium wheels, Michelin slicks, and weighs in at just 1,292kg (2850lbs).
Despite the styling similarities, class restrictions ensure the GTS-R has to weigh at least 2,745 lbs (1,245 kg), can only produce 450-500 hp (336-373 kW / 456-507 PS) and can only hit a top speed of 180 mph (290 km/h).
Another Mag...
2013 SRT Viper GTS-R
| Engine: | 8.0L V10 |
| HP: | 455 HP (Restricted by Series) |
| Trans: | XTrac Transaxle, Paddle Shift |
| Brakes: | Front, Brembo 6-Piston, 380mm rotors Rear, Brembo 4-Pison, 330mm rotors |
| Wheels: | TWS Forged, Magnesium |
| Tire: | Michelin Slicks Front: 30/68-18 Rear: 31/71-18 |
| Safety Equipment: | Sabelt On-Board Fire Suppression System Sabelt Driver Restraint System FIA Roll Cage FIA Approved Race Seat FIA Approved Fuel Cell |
| Top Speed: | 182 mph |
| Curb Weight: | 2850 lbs |
Top Gear
Two Viper GTS-Rs will race this year, and interestingly, the Viper gets special dispensation. Normal Le Mans rules caps GT petrol engine size at 5.5-litres, but SRT got permission to run an 8.0-litre version of its V10, though restricted by a special intake. It does, as the SRT team concede, "take a big chunk out of Viper's power curve", but they reckon it'll still be quick.
It runs 455bhp, a 182mph top speed, a paddle shift gearbox, huge 380mm Brembo discs up front and 330mm discs at the back, 18in forged magnesium wheels, Michelin slicks, and weighs in at just 1,292kg (2850lbs).
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viper GTS-R
Enthusiast
I asked this question to some friends earlier and all of us felt the same way...
As if the race wasn't raced until the last 1/4.
I understand the team is new. I didn't expect a win, Ryan told me himself he'd be lying if they didn't go into the race thinking about it but just as Ralph said, the main goal of the weekend was to just finish.
Now, there are 4 classes. P1, P2, GT Pro and GT Am. But if you really break it down, it was more or less WEC Vs. ALMS and for the most part it seemed like everyone kinda just drove for laps not for a win. Sure there were plenty of variables but I had a feeling everyone just seemed to take it easy.
BTW can any of the UK members chime in on this, does Audi receive points in the WEC series after winning LeMans? Is the race considered a part of the schedule?
--RS
As if the race wasn't raced until the last 1/4.
I understand the team is new. I didn't expect a win, Ryan told me himself he'd be lying if they didn't go into the race thinking about it but just as Ralph said, the main goal of the weekend was to just finish.
Now, there are 4 classes. P1, P2, GT Pro and GT Am. But if you really break it down, it was more or less WEC Vs. ALMS and for the most part it seemed like everyone kinda just drove for laps not for a win. Sure there were plenty of variables but I had a feeling everyone just seemed to take it easy.
BTW can any of the UK members chime in on this, does Audi receive points in the WEC series after winning LeMans? Is the race considered a part of the schedule?
--RS
Boxer12
Enthusiast
Very disappointed. I would rather see good pace than finish in the back of the pack to every other manufacturer. Just my 2c.
Alabaster Mamba
Enthusiast
Very good points. When you look at the best lap times, it becomes pretty evident that Bill P. was spot on about the Vipers air intakes being too restrictive.
http://www.24h-lemans.com/wpphpFich...ures-du-mans-2013-classifcation-after-24h.pdf
The important thing is that they both finished and learned alot of what they need to try to improve on. Overall we should be very happy for our guys for doing the best they could with the restrictions they had to work with.
johniew398
Enthusiast
Everything Mark said!
I think they did great!
You have to realize that not only were our drivers new to this event/track, their practice time was effectively cut in half because of senseless wrecks during practice hours because of overly aggressive driving and then the weather played havoc on further tuning before the race. They had to basically go with what they thought would work and drive around it all while learning the circuit, that being said they should be extremely proud to have finished let alone so well!
Viper and Corvette got hosed! No two ways about it. To bring a 640hp car down to 450--490hp is not really representative of anything.
If they want an IROC Spec series, then just amend the rules accordingly.
How about the other girlie car manufacturers produce actual production beasts like the Viper and ZR1 so that the cars can race with closer to stock or stock+ power instead of dumbing-down the fast production cars to give the fancy and slow production cars a chance? Or produce a "GT Pro Latte/cupcake division" with 400hp max so the little fancy cars can race!
Otherwise, the best road race in the world (and really ALMs) will be forever ruined. This year's GT Pro was a joke and not really interesting. BMW was the smartest by just passing (Z4/V8 was not eligible). These "racing rules" could be yet one more reason to leave France to the French. VERY disappointing!
If they want an IROC Spec series, then just amend the rules accordingly.
How about the other girlie car manufacturers produce actual production beasts like the Viper and ZR1 so that the cars can race with closer to stock or stock+ power instead of dumbing-down the fast production cars to give the fancy and slow production cars a chance? Or produce a "GT Pro Latte/cupcake division" with 400hp max so the little fancy cars can race!
Otherwise, the best road race in the world (and really ALMs) will be forever ruined. This year's GT Pro was a joke and not really interesting. BMW was the smartest by just passing (Z4/V8 was not eligible). These "racing rules" could be yet one more reason to leave France to the French. VERY disappointing!
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
We were hoping the front of the Vipers might get somehow damaged with the restrictor flutes getting broken off the car, then the Viper could really breath!I came away from the race weekend with mixed thoughts.
Great to see Vipers at Le mans again but if the cars are being held back its hard to see a way forward?
The new GT3 Viper was AWESOME, and I also loved the new colour scheme. Perhaps the GT3 racing might be the way to go?
And fed up now with seeing yet another Audi win!
VIPER BAZ UK
Enthusiast
FANTASTIC weekend........ Meeting all the SRT guys and Ralph made it for me.....
think the GTS-R did very well , After 13 yrs of no factory team cars and finishing was a win in itself ... Now the can talk to the ACO and talk about mods to make it more even of a race....
WELL DONE SRT-MOTORSORT ..........
think the GTS-R did very well , After 13 yrs of no factory team cars and finishing was a win in itself ... Now the can talk to the ACO and talk about mods to make it more even of a race....
WELL DONE SRT-MOTORSORT ..........
My bigger disappointment was the lack of coverage state-side for the race. You'd think with 24 hours they could say something about all the teams and cover the different classes more thoroughly. It pretty much just seemed like the Audi and P1/P2 show, the GT classes (all of the cars really) seemed to get the short end of the stick. Every once in a while you might see them in the pit, but about the only time you saw anything was when one had some kind of accident or trouble. The Viper coverage for Sebring was off the charts, but they again it was a US race. You almost never saw the GT cars doing any racing other than when a P1 car was passing them.
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