Won't go in reverse + CEL?

[Synergy]

20 minutes after I put some gas in the Viper, the CEL popped up out of nowhere. Checked the gas cap and it was tight and nothing felt out of the norm when driving. Parked the car for a few hours (reseting the cap a few times JUST incase) before leaving my job at night. Tried to go in reverse but it wouldn't push through. Made sure every other gear worked (which it did) before using 2 hands to finally get it all the way over to reach reverse to leave my job. Shut the car off a few times to see if it was a one and done thing but it won't go in reverse unless I push hard with both hands to get it over.

I have an MGW shift knob in the car that keeps coming loose over and over no matter who "fixes" it. My 2003 Viper had the same shift knob that wouldn't move no matter how hard you tried. Maybe the thread on the knob damaged?

I recently had Belanger exhaust/headers installed WITH cat converters but the factory heat shields were not reinstalled when doing so. Could it possibly be that the heat from the headers over heated a wire? Has anyone ever experienced something like this?

Any help is appreciated!

 

[Steve M]

Maybe try unplugging the reverse lockout solenoid and see what happens?

You might be onto something with the burnt wire theory.

 

[speedracervr4]

Read the CEL code and go from there.

 

[bigmack339]

o2 sensor wire burnt through.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Pull the ASD1 or 2 fuse under the hood and see if it is blown. if it is replace and see if it does it right away again and if so it is likely the passenger rear o2 sensor wires broken shorting to ground.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Mark, I think that if the ASD fuse or fuses were blown the car would run like crap if at all. You'd also have the electrical warning icon lit. OP said car seemed ok other than failure to go into reverse. He really should read the codes to see what is wrong. If the passenger rear O2 were shorting there would be several codes plus the electrical warning icon. I know it just happened to me 3 weeks ago. Ended up using some DEI insulation on the wires.

 

[BLK04]

Pull the ASD1 or 2 fuse under the hood and see if it is blown. if it is replace and see if it does it right away again and if so it is likely the passenger rear o2 sensor wires broken shorting to ground.

this is exactly correct.....seen it before on my 2004

 

[PDCjonny]

Code reader says: P0141
02 sensor heater circuit bank 1 sensor 2.

Also has a P1719 skip shift circuit error.

Thoughts?

 

[BLK04]

blown fuse in the power distribution box under the hood marked dn02 15amp looking toward the front of the car it should be on the far right side , third small fuse from the front ( I think )

 

[ViperGeorge]

When I melted the O2 wires with my headers and blew the ASD fuse the car barely ran. It ran like on 5 cylinders. Had 5 codes including one for an electrical fault. I had the electrical red icon on the dash as well.

 

[PDCjonny]

Not seeing any blown fuses, which is the suspect?

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[Synergy]

Should I be concerned about the P1719 codes?

 

[BLK04]

Not seeing any blown fuses, which is the suspect?

You must be registered for see images attach

3rd small fuse on the right, below the 2 yellow ... sometimes very hard to tell if they are blown , pull it out and look close or just replace it with a known good one

 

[PDCjonny]

You are correct, that fuse was blown.

 

[redrichard]

Did that correct the problem with reverse ?

 

[PDCjonny]

Haven't driven it yet but since he had new headers put on recently must be burnt or shorted 02 sensor wire?

 

[Allan]

Haven't driven it yet but since he had new headers put on recently must be burnt or shorted 02 sensor wire?

Yes........Investigate that next, or the fuse will blow again,....then no reverse will happen as well.

 

[PDCjonny]

Anyone have a photo or can point out exactly where said 02 sensor wire is in relation to the exhaust?

 

[BLK04]

Did that correct the problem with reverse ?

If I remember correct, this fuse powers both circuits, down stream O2 sensors & reverse lock out

 

[Synergy]

Wouldn't that be nice and easy!

If I remember correct, this fuse powers both circuits, down stream O2 sensors & reverse lock out

 

[Synergy]

Cut and re-wired o2 sensor and other wires exposed to heat and replaced fuse. Went to pick car up today and CEL popped back on before I left the lot (fuse blown again) and wouldn't go in reverse. Hmm... What's next?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

You will need a new O2, I have yet to see a re wired one work. There has to be room for wires to bend, they can rub through and ground out on the O2 itself. We put a couple layers of heat shielding so when it bends it can't chaff through.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Very common on Belanger exhausts. They are still our favorite by a long shot, but the downstream O2 sensor wires are pushed out towards the side sill insulation, and on some cars they will be damaged. Contrary to common sense, the more you try and shield the wires, the faster they deteriorate since the insulation retains more heat transferred up the sensor. The best method is to keep the wires on the loose side, and create as much room as possible between the shielding and the back of the sensor. On some cars we have "dented" the stainless shield in the sill to form a cup for the wires, on some cars we have had to shave down the O2 ****, and on some we have had to resort to simulators.

 

[Nader]

Dan what did you do with mine? I have had zero issues with the full belanger exhaust and a few other mods.... haha. Took the car out yesterday to a car show by the beach which was the first time out with sport cups on the car. I and got on it a few times and was absolutely amazed at the power and the way the Sport cups grip. The car was like on ice skates with my old pirelli setup...

Very common on Belanger exhausts. They are still our favorite by a long shot, but the downstream O2 sensor wires are pushed out towards the side sill insulation, and on some cars they will be damaged. Contrary to common sense, the more you try and shield the wires, the faster they deteriorate since the insulation retains more heat transferred up the sensor. The best method is to keep the wires on the loose side, and create as much room as possible between the shielding and the back of the sensor. On some cars we have "dented" the stainless shield in the sill to form a cup for the wires, on some cars we have had to shave down the O2 ****, and on some we have had to resort to simulators.

 

[ViperGeorge]

With the Mopar Controller do you even need to plug in the downstream O2 sensors? I melted my extension wire (too close to the collector) and blew the damn fuse again at the Viper Hastings event. Ended up plugging in a new O2 sensor and just zip tied it to the frame out of the way of the heat. Do I even need to plug in the sensor or can I just take an old O2, cut off the plug and plug it in to keep dirt out of the harness plug?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan what did you do with mine? I have had zero issues with the full belanger exhaust and a few other mods.... haha. Took the car out yesterday to a car show by the beach which was the first time out with sport cups on the car. I and got on it a few times and was absolutely amazed at the power and the way the Sport cups grip. The car was like on ice skates with my old pirelli setup...

Tom-

The Gen-4 setups must be jigged a bit different, as we have not had any come backs on the Gen-4's for this issue [knock on wood]. You have the standard temp sleeve and push-back of the OE insulation, nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Viper Specialty]

With the Mopar Controller do you even need to plug in the downstream O2 sensors? I melted my extension wire (too close to the collector) and blew the damn fuse again at the Viper Hastings event. Ended up plugging in a new O2 sensor and just zip tied it to the frame out of the way of the heat. Do I even need to plug in the sensor or can I just take an old O2, cut off the plug and plug it in to keep dirt out of the harness plug?

I have not checked on a Gen-4, but in earlier generations you need to have it plugged in, but it does not actually read it. The Open Circuit however is a different code.

 

[Synergy]

Got to the bottom of what happened. Long story, the install job of the exhaust/headers was far from top notch. Description from Kai @ Elite Motorsports in NY of what he saw and what it took in order to take care of the problem. Now I'm stuck with a bill due to a poor install job by a previous tech/shop...

Viper came in with CEL, scanned codes reverse solenoid code comes up as well as O2 sensor code. Determined wires were not properly routed when headers were installed therefore the wire touched exhaust at numerous locations and shorted out resulting blowing the 15A fuse for the D/O2 which controls the reverse lockout solenoid and other things on the same circuit. Upon inspecting the routing of the wires inside engine compartment we determined they were touching the headers on both banks. Rewired harness up top and rerouted them correctly. Car drove fine for a few days right before delivery the CEL came back on (we had not removed the side skirts previously assuming all was well but we were wrong) CEL back on, scanned same codes, same fuse blown. We knew our wiring up top was fine therefore must be secondary O2 harness. Removed side skirts and was obvious that the wires going to the rear O2's were not routed correctly as well (not to mention the sensors were tightened incorrectly tangling/"cross threading" the wires, proper way to install an O2 sensor is spin the O2 sensor counter clockwise first and then insert into O2 **** and then turn clockwise so the wires don't get tangled up O2 sensor install 101. Upon removing the harness it was beyond repair so we re- extended the O2 sensors and re-wired it as seen below and routed them around the heat shields properly replaced the O2 sensors as well due to them being faulty due to heat. Replaced fuse, scanned made sure all O2 sensors were reading properly, cleared codes, car now functioning to spec.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Got to the bottom of what happened. Long story, the install job of the exhaust/headers was far from top notch. Description from Kai @ Elite Motorsports in NY of what he saw and what it took in order to take care of the problem. Now I'm stuck with a bill due to a poor install job by a previous tech/shop...

Viper came in with CEL, scanned codes reverse solenoid code comes up as well as O2 sensor code. Determined wires were not properly routed when headers were installed therefore the wire touched exhaust at numerous locations and shorted out resulting blowing the 15A fuse for the D/O2 which controls the reverse lockout solenoid and other things on the same circuit. Upon inspecting the routing of the wires inside engine compartment we determined they were touching the headers on both banks. Rewired harness up top and rerouted them correctly. Car drove fine for a few days right before delivery the CEL came back on (we had not removed the side skirts previously assuming all was well but we were wrong) CEL back on, scanned same codes, same fuse blown. We knew our wiring up top was fine therefore must be secondary O2 harness. Removed side skirts and was obvious that the wires going to the rear O2's were not routed correctly as well (not to mention the sensors were tightened incorrectly tangling/"cross threading" the wires, proper way to install an O2 sensor is spin the O2 sensor counter clockwise first and then insert into O2 **** and then turn clockwise so the wires don't get tangled up O2 sensor install 101. Upon removing the harness it was beyond repair so we re- extended the O2 sensors and re-wired it as seen below and routed them around the heat shields properly replaced the O2 sensors as well due to them being faulty due to heat. Replaced fuse, scanned made sure all O2 sensors were reading properly, cleared codes, car now functioning to spec.

I'm using the ACR X headers. My down stream O2s are on the back side of the cat pipe. Are yours on the front side or back side? How exactly did you route the O2 wires? I've insulated mine with DEI Velcro closure insulation. Still not sure it is good enough. I've heard that insulating them can actually increase the probability of burning the wires (actually I think it was a previous post in this thread).

 

[1bad540]

Glad you got it sorted!,