Gen 2 vs. Gen 5 GTS

[Chamberlen]

Hello all,

I know I know, by the end of reading this your going to say get whatever you prefer, but I'm trying to find out which type of Viper to purchase. I'm deciding between a gen 2 (2001/2002 only) and gen 5 GTS. If I go with the gen 2 then hopefully I can find a GTS ACR but I'm not stuck to an ACR, I can do a gen 2 GTS. The issues I'm having in deciding....

I love the gen 2 Viper, it was my dream car growing up as a child and it would be a nice addition to the garage having an old school Viper. My fear is all the headaches that come with owning a gen 2. It's the maintenance that also has me worried. My enjoyment of having a gen 2 would be modifying certain parts of the car such as exhaust, headers, smooth tubes, etc. But to be clear I'd like to do tasteful mods, nothing extreme like adding 1000hp or that crazy stuff that some enthusiasts enjoy. I know what you all are thinking...if I like modifying the car then fixing it would be part of that process. Well what I'm referring to is the headache of dealing with the wear and tear of the car rising up at random times. I've heard of paint melting off due to the extreme heat of the engine. The doors not closing and latching properly. I can go on but I'm sure all of you know the issues I'm referring to.

That brings me to why a gen 5 is slowly catching my eye. The gen 5 is truly one of the greatest sports cars ever made. The achievements the car has accomplished are incredible. It's also newer, under warranty, all issues in previous generations are fixed, safer, etc. etc. (this is vs. past Viper models)

If owners can share their insight of the gen 2 vs. gen 5 that would be much appreciated. I would also love to have any recommended PP Inspectors website or contact if you got them. Do you guys even recommend a PPI?

Thank you all

 

[BoondocSaint]

Sounds like money isn't the issue, so comes down to what you want out of the experience. If refinement is the higher priority, you know which generation gets you there. If nostalgia is higher on the pecking order, there is a clear winner to me between the two choices. Both will offer a unique and thrilling drive, both will hold their value respectively, both will be a rare sighting in the wild.

Gen 2 GTS was a love at first sight for me, and love ain't rational. If it matters at all, the Gen 2 GTS comes with a historic race pedigree. I personally enjoy that connection to GT racing.

 

[daveg]

When they Modeled the Gen V they modeled it after the Gen II. Cant go wrong on either. I think you are fearing the Gen II more than you need to as far as repairs etc. Just make sure if you get a Gen II its a clean example.

I love the Gen II, I think its the sweet spot of all Vipers but I am obviously Bias.

 

[GTS Dean]

At some point, parts and maintenance issues will hit the Gen 5 more than any other due to lower production numbers and more complex systems. That said, they are the pinnacle of the breed as far as a complete modern package.

 

[MoparMap]

Not quite apples to apples, but I kind of know what you mean. My 2004 is better than my mom's 94 in pretty much every measurable way, but there is just something about her car that is special to drive. It's just a very unique kind of car and engages you like nothing else. There's nothing to get in the way between you and the car when it comes to driving it. That being said, the reason I bought my 04 was because I wanted something with a roof, windows, and a dead pedal to rest my foot on because it was going to be my daily driver. The gen 2 GTS would have hit several of those points as well, but I liked the better performance and brakes you get with the gen 3, so that's more or less how I ended up where I am.

 

[capevettes]

Love my Gen 2 GTS, 01 Sapphire. As Dave said, before they built the Gen 5, they asked for input from Viper afficionados. What resonated was a desire to get back to the appearance of the Gen 2 GTS. They came up with a great car.
The Gen 5 has more modern features but the Gen 2 is far from a kit car build. It's extremely well built and the drivetrain is absolutely bulletproof. I've had mine for 10 years and it's been very reliable.
The Gen 5 certainly has more power up top but the Gen 2 makes great low end torque. The Gen 5 is more complex and, as was stated, parts and repairs will become an issue at some point. Don't forget, the newest Viper was made almost 8 years ago. Of note, the Gen 2 will cost you alot less to buy. Go with the Gen 2 if you're undecided. If you don't like it, you can always sell it and get a Gen 5.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Well stated, capevettes !!

 

[Bill W]

I have a Gen 2 RT/10. Very comfortable car to drive (yes, a dead pedal would be a welcome addition) and it attracts a lot of attention from others. I know Vipers are difficult to find, but sitting in both, and more importantly, driving both, might help you decide. For me, the raw, basic appeal of a Gen 1 or Gen 2 is a major attraction. The only thing I'd wish for is a backup camera. It takes a lot of time to "feel" your way into a parallel parking spot. After a while you can do it routinely without worry about rim rash or some other minor mishap.

 

[MarkL]

Love my ‘99 ACR and it’s been lightly modified like you mention, full Belanger exhaust, gears, Gen 3 brakes, and a dyno tune. Absolutely bullet proof and a riot to drive. Obviously not refined like a Gen 5, the biggest considerations I’d point out is AC isn’t adequate even when working properly (I’m in the south) and cabin noise. Otherwise 0 complaints. Sounds like you want ABS, but the 708 cam in the ‘96-‘99 is awesome.

 

[Badinternet]

I would say that if money is not an issue, then don't worry about the maintenance. Although I've put too much money into my Gen 2 as it is, I like the idea and process of making something better and improving it. And that is what the tasteful mods for these cars do; you get to watch a thing evolve. That, in addition to the insane aesthetics of Gen 2, is why I went this route instead of a more polished Gen 5 (money is also a consideration!). Lastly, I would add that, although I haven't driven a 5, I have to imagine the analog feeling of the second generation; the more tactile, raw, somewhat dangerous aspects of the car make it much more enjoyable. The newer cars are just a bit more tame in that respect despite being much more powerful and faster.

At the end of the day, you can't go wrong. Still, if money weren't an issue, I would get a mint, low-mileage Gen 2 all over again, replace everything with billet, IPSCO, polyurethane, and silicone, upgrade the cam, gears, breaks, coilovers etc., etc., and upgrade every component while keeping her NA and still just as raw. And this is exactly what I'm in the process of doing now, so that is to say, I would do it all again!

Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to rant about why I love these cars; good luck!

 

[Brilly]

I have a rare low mile 96 GTS and would not trade it for anything. Was my dream car always. Not a hassle at all to own and it is almost 30 years old. You do not have to worry about maintenance. It just works. It is only going go up in value, never see another on the road, set the tone for Gen5, Le Mans, nostalgia, etc etc.

It does not sound like you want to track, rather have a clean slightly modified Viper.

Having said that, are we crazy here? Get the Gen V ACR if that is an option! If you want more rawness/nostalgia after find another $50k and get a gen1 or gen2 RT/10. Also, do not overthink ABS and limit yourself to 01-02 GTS. Never heard anyone not want an F4O or McLaren F1 because it did not have ABS.

And here I am saying get a Gen V ACR but I had the same options and got a mint Gen 2... the decision has to come from your heart man

 

[matt dillon]

Sounds like everybody has pretty much covered the basics of the two, My first one was the 2000 Steel Grey RT/10 cause I ONLY wanted the Steel Gray color & that's the only year they were made but I got the Jeff Lemke 3 piece top which made it look SO much better but like someone else mentioned the AC is not the best & the cabin noise and I did put the 355 gears in it which made a BIG difference & my other is the 2013 & it's definitely a lot faster but like someone else said it seems a lot tamer. Just make sure to do your homework on both of them but make sure you Drive both of them cause there's a World of Difference! I think most of my friends like the way the 00' looks more than the Gen, V & I probably do to but between the two I would go with the Gen. V, Good Luck & let us know which one you go with. Can't go wrong with either JMO

 

[serafins]

Truthfully right now, with prices where they are, you could probably pick up a higher mileage gen ii for $55k and a mid mileage gen v for $115k or so and be into two of them for less than $175k

 

[Chamberlen]

I really appreciate all this feedback…

Just a few updates/questions:

- Regarding gen 2 ABS, yes that is exactly why I was only looking 2001/2002. These cars are legit mean and I wanted the ABS just for safety reasons. My question is, is there a noticeable difference having ABS vs not.

- I will not be using either viper as a track car

- I am considering a gen v acr but if I’m going into that kind of price range I would rather go for a gen 1 ford gt

- my wife would kill me if I got both vipers, in fact she doesn’t even know I’m having these secret convos while building her a home.

- I live in the south too, Nashville. Would I have to send my gen 2 viper to like Atlanta for maintenance or is there a reputable viper mechanic up here?

- I agree that I need to drive both cars. Im setting up for a gen v test drive in Houston in a few weeks but can’t find a 2001/2002 gen 2 test drive. I’m hoping you all can explain and help convince me to look at pre 2001 viper gts’s without the ABS.

Thank you all for this support and taking the time and energy for my dilemma.

 

[Steve-Indy]

I will only add that YOU can maintain your own Viper...very easy to do on a Gen II, and not bad on a Gen V once you remove a more extensive belly pan.

 

[BoondocSaint]

Are you opposed to upgrading the gen 2 gts brakes? Someone else will have to chime in on how good factory are balanced, and if they are prone to lock up.

A previous owner installed AP Racing 6 piston calipers up front, and PBR brakes out back on my car. Still using factory rotors, and a Wilwood brake proportioning valve was also installed. All I know is this car has zero issues stopping. Whoever installed this setup, dialed everything in to my liking, because I have yet to find the point where I would lock the brakes up. I aggressively tested this setup to see where they might lock. My conclusion is ABS would have engaged if the car had it, but these continued to a very controlled, positive, and smooth stop.

 

[Badsnek]

I own the first 4 Gens including a Gen 2 GTS. I have roughly 1-2 hours of seat time in Gen 5’s.

Bluntly, if you are buying just for looks, nothing is more iconic than a Gen 2 GTS. With that being said, if you’re looking for more than an iconic looking car quit guessing and just buy a Gen 5. Do I love my GTS? Sure. I drove my GTS maybe two more times this year than my RT10. Collectively I drove my GTS 3 or 4 times. I mainly drive my Gen 3 or 4.

That’s my 2 cents. It’s not popular opinion. But I don’t care.

 

[MarkL]

Hey Chamberlin, I’m in Nashville too. You’re welcome to checkout the ‘99 ACR to understand the A/C or whatever else. We have a good shop here, Carma Performance. Eric, the owner, has a gen 5.

 

[BlackVenom]

I owned my 2000 Gen 2 for 18 years and I never missed the ABS. I bought it new off the showroom floor at my local Dodge dealer and I never grew tired of the thrill it gave when driving. However, near the end of my ownership, it cost me $1-2K every time I took it out because something was always breaking. (AC compressor, power steering pump, serpentine belt which I had to get a tow, etc.)

I sold it for newish Shelby GT350 because the sound of VooDoo FPC in that car was awesome. Now, I have a very tame C8 Stingray R with Borla exhaust, but there are still days when I long for raw low-end torque of the Viper. (Even though the C8 is the fastest car I have ever owned…)

This was the last time I had it in the shop when I finally decided it was time to sell.

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[Fentress24]

I was in the same boat and went with a Gen 2. It was always the car I dreamed about. I picked up a low mileage blue/white TT car. Mine has aftermarket brakes on it, but still no ABS and you’ll most likely never notice it. No traction control would be more of a problem, but the power is very manageable and the car is predictable with modern tires. AC is “ok” the car is very raw. I would definitely ride in one or drive one before buying.

 

[A12pilot]

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This is my second 1997 with 16K miles. I added Gen V Rattlers, a K&N smooth tube setup, and it came with a Borla exhaust, high-flo cats, and upgraded brakes. I also upgraded the PS pulley, mount, all fluids replaced, along with other miscellaneous Gen 2 requirements that make the car better. I think it combines the best of both Viper Gens II & V but everyone has their own opinion. The maintenance you speak of is not a real concern with these cars. I prefer the Gen 2 since I'm able to rip apart the car with minimal effort and the sheer lack of complicated electronics is welcomed from me. But yes, I want a V Launch but this won't go anywhere! Best of luck in any route you chose.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Anyone know if later gens had knock and BARO sensors?

If you are going to add HP, do you plan to tune the car? If yes, figure out what's involved between Gen 2 and 5. Are you going to tune it or pay someone? There are different levels of tuning: Canned based on specs, Remote dyno, drop off at tuner. If you are going to have someone tune it, get their opinion. I found a guy that tunes high end sports cars and said he could do a GTS. But when I told him it does not have a knock sensor, he said no. I would only do business with a tuner that specializes in Vipers. There are tuners that appear very capable that screw stuff up when not expert w/Viper. There can be issues with the Gen 2 PCM's - research this.

 

[serafins]

No ABS isn’t really an issue with good tires and stock brakes imo. I doubt you’ll lock them up on the street with a modern tire. Even if you do, I have the Stoptech big brake kit and have purposely locked my brakes up and the car brakes very straight still.

Frankly I believe these cars need way more rear brake bias. A proportioning valve is in my near future.

 

[GTS Dean]

One thing you can do RIGHT NOW, FOR FREE is to remove the spring from the back of your proportioning valve. This will give full line pressure to the tiny calipers and still not lock the rear brakes. My car hasn't had the spring in it since 1997. Here's what 13" Gen 2 brakes with race pads do at COTA on a 2-day weekend with 8 track sessions.